Death Tourism
This is probably the most scary advertisement I have ever seen. Israeli officials have been able to turn their "struggle for survival" - as they call it - into a tourism business that costs $1,895 per person excluding airfare. "Experience a dynamic and intensive eight day exploration of Israel's struggle for survival and security in the Middle East today," reads the advertisment (click here to see it). Oh, and mission participants - as they are called - are required to make a tax-deductible donation of $500 to $5,000 to Shurat HaDin - Israel Law Center to assist in the funding of the terror victim litigation against the Palestinian terrorist organizations, their leaders and financial patrons. I think it is rather ludicrous to transform such serious situations into a fantasy business that does only one thing: instigate more hate and fear.One of the testimonials read: "Whether it was observing a terror trial outside Beit El, cruising the Kinneret in the beautiful moonlight, staring down Hizzboulah terrorists across the Lebanese border, or meeting the key policy makers and shapers in Israel, each stop on the odyssey connected me more and more to the tribulations and triumphs of our amazing Israeli brothers and sisters." It feels great that another person now clearly views all of Lebanon as a terrorist organization. Thank you Shurat HaDin for turning the region's crisis into a Disney Middle East where people don't even see that human beings are dying in the thousands, on all sides.
mrtez
The itenerary includes:
- Briefings by Mossad officials and Shin Bet commanders.
- Briefing by officers in the IDF Intelligence and Operations branches.
- Inside tour of the IAF unit who carries out targeted killings.
- Live exhabition of penetration raids in Arab territory.
- Observe a trial of Hamas terrorists in an IDF military court.
- First hand tours of the Lebanese front-line military positions and the Gaza border check-points.
- Inside tour of the controversial Security Fence and secret intelligence bases.
- Meeting Israel's Arab agents who infiltrate the terrorist groups and provide real-time intelligence.
- Briefing by Israel's war heros who saved the country.
- Meetings with senior Cabinet Ministers and other key policymakers.
- Small airplane tour of the Galilee, Jeep rides in the Golan hights, water activities on Lake Kinneret, a cookout barbecue and a Shabbat enjoying the rich religious and historic wonders of Jerusalem's Old City.
posted by beirutlive at 6:25 PM
42 Comments:
Doc - it's not just profiting. It is yet another example of the completely outrageous bullying of a group of out of control people bent on hate and destruction. Look at the purpose of the "required donation" - I've quoted it below. All of this while people are in "luxury accomodations" travelling in "luxurious buses" and eating "authentic mideast" meals. they get a bouncy humvee ride in the Golan Heights while some hack who carried a rifle tells them all about "terrorism."
Mrtez - are we about to arrange a tour of Lebanon, perhaps? Maybe it could be on camel back to continue the stereotype? Perhaps you could arrange - ala the Disney experience - for a "terrorist" to be shooting at a fighter bomber 5 miles up in the sky. Perhaps you could demonstrate how effective the "war on terror" is by killing young mothers of prospective terrorists. Or how effective it is to blow up the airport or oil storage.
It is no wonder why the anti-defamation league is so necessary. The propaganda that flows is so completely outrageous it could not otherwise be imagined. It is straight from Rudolf Hoess.
And - as a final and completely unforgivable insult and further demonstration of the complete incompetence of our idiot government, the required "donation" is called a donation so that it is PAID BY THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER. Note the receipt will be given so the "donor" can deduct it from his or her taxes. In addition to all the money we give to that place.
Here: Read why the donation is required:
Mission participants are required to make a tax-deductible donation of
$500 to $5,000 to Shurat HaDin - Israel Law Center to assist in the funding of the terror victim litigation against the Palestinian terrorist organizations, their leaders and financial patrons.
These civil actions are currently being brought in Israel, the United States and Europe on behalf of the victims and families of the victims of the suicide bombings and drive-by shootings and enable them to fight back against those who have killed and injured their loved ones and devastated their lives forever.
These lawsuits are an effective means of bankrupting the perpetrators of these heinous crimes and providing long term financial security for the victims and families, many of whom have been economically crippled with the lose and wounding of breadwinners.
The donations will permit the survivors of the hundreds of killed and injured to seek justice and compensation through the court systems around the world. Shurat Hadin will provide all donors with a tax-deductible receipt for Internal Revenue Service purposes.
Here is the letter I just sent to my congressman:
Here is the link to an ad for a luxury tour called "The Ultimate Mission" in Israel to see the problems with terrorism and how it is being fought. Although the idea behind the "tour" is simply to promote more fear and hate, I am concerned that the American Taxpayer is paying for it. After the link, I've quoted a part of the ad wherein the required "donation" is specified. The reason for requiring the "donation" (as opposed to increasing the ticket price by the required amount) is made clear: it is TAX DEDUCTIBLE (see the last sentence below)
Is it really tax deductible? If so, what must I do to stop it?
http://www.israellawcenter.org/articlenav.php?id=14
Mission participants are required to make a tax-deductible donation of
$500 to $5,000 to Shurat HaDin - Israel Law Center to assist in the funding of the terror victim litigation against the Palestinian terrorist organizations, their leaders and financial patrons.
These civil actions are currently being brought in Israel, the United States and Europe on behalf of the victims and families of the victims of the suicide bombings and drive-by shootings and enable them to fight back against those who have killed and injured their loved ones and devastated their lives forever.
These lawsuits are an effective means of bankrupting the perpetrators of these heinous crimes and providing long term financial security for the victims and families, many of whom have been economically crippled with the lose and wounding of breadwinners.
The donations will permit the survivors of the hundreds of killed and injured to seek justice and compensation through the court systems around the world. Shurat Hadin will provide all donors with a tax-deductible receipt for Internal Revenue Service purposes.
I can tell you Lilu - I have friends who have visited Israel and come back "changed" (their word) Apparently there has always been a "briefing" for American visitors. My friends told me the briefing changed them from being concerned about all the violence to being convinced Israel must do all it can to "elminate" the terrorists. It must be quite a briefing because the people I'm talking about are very nice, very religious - orthodox but not overbearing - and very compassionate.
And that was not a safari. That was some years ago.
And I want to be sure you understand me, Lilu - I agree with you about the customers are sick - ride in luxury buses to where they get off to bounce around in a humvee and then back on for an "authentic mideast" meal in the "five start hotel" in Jerusalem. My upset is that it's tax deductible. Whatever pleasure these people get from it, fine. But it really is cynical to require a "donation" so that it's tax deductible.
I'll give it a shot, Kevin - you understandably assume the UN troops are friendly and simply want to "keep the peace" and make sure HZ doesn't fire any rockets toward Israel. But - it's supposed to be a "robust" force ready to do more than simply "keep the peace." Add to that the idea (with, perhaps, some paranoia on Iran and Syria's part) that the Lebanon fiasco really is a precursor to going into Syria and Iran. It's not unreasonable to be at least concerned about the bona fides of such a force on the border.
Plus, of course, there's some propaganda value to making the announcement. He can't really do anything about it other than talk - so he talks. We're familiar with that kind of person, aren't we? Bashar talks to hear himself and hope others will as well.
For how long does Israel want to control what goes into Lebanon? Forever? By sea, air or land? Is there an arrangement contemplated whereby this "robust" international force will stay there that long? Or does Israel plan to keep 15,000 or so troops out of the economy and on the military payroll? As is happening with the US in Iraq.
I am with you Doc. I just read this and I am completely disgusted. There is absolutely no excuse for this kind of behavior.
I am thinking that Israel has annointed itself as the perennial victim, entitled to use any means to benefit itself and oppress those they find to be a threat. But it's a far cry from Nazi Germany to Hamas and Hezbollah. And the last I checked, Nazi Germany removed Jews from their land and property. Hamas and Hezbollah are the direct results of Arabs being displaced by people who elect a government that has no interest in peaceful coexistence.
Absolutely disgusting.
Can you imagine the Jewish comparison in Nazi Germany?
Come visit Auschwitz; meet the guards that killed the prisoners...let them demonstrate their killing techniques...sit through policy meetings on The Final Solution; all for only $1,895 plus a $1,000 tax deductible donation to bring back the Nazi Party in Germany.
How can anyone find this acceptable?
That's a bit of a stretch, Rick. I don't like the ad, I'd never take the trip and I think it's awful it is tax deductible. But I don't think your analogy is fair.
Maybe, maybe not. I can't speak for how anyone would react to that, but the thought of a government engaged in profiteering off the oppression of a people is horrifying.
"Let's celebrate hate" seems to be the message here; how far is it down the slippery slope to my analogy?
It's not the government profiteering? It is a company profiteering is it not? It's quite pathetic someone would do it, but I wouldn't put it past many people in the states either. There are always stupid gimmicks going on just so someone can make a buck.
Look at who the meetings are with. Government and military officials; tell me that the government is not making money off of this, either officially or unofficially.
Agreed, Doc. But I read the whole ad. This is a junket put on by people who want to toot their own horns about what they are doing and why it's so important. Boil it down and it's not a whole lot different than the annual show at your local army post or air force base. Show off the high tech stuff and how it is used in _____ (fill in the blank) to kill the enemy.
This one is particularly tasteless but I can't agree it rises to the level of profiting from misery. It's part of Jewish tradition to whine - there's even a yiddish word for it that I can't remember. That's what this is. It's just hurtful and incorrect to try to make it equivalent to touring death camps.
C'mon, guys - you both are more reasonable than that. You're getting carried away, I think. Did you know there are tours of every major battlefield in the history of the United States? Revolutionary war, Civil War, Spanish American, WWII, Korea and now, even, Vietnam. And at each site (at least in the United States) there are detailed charts and maps. And there's always the warning about vigilance and how somebody is trying to take our freedoms away (other than Bush and Cheney, et al)
It's propaganda - that's all. But it shouldn't be tax deductible.
Here's something interesting - google "UN Resolution 194" - that's the resolution containing the "right of return." You won't find the actual resolution right away but you will find some competing web sites for its interpretation. The resolution itself is vague and ambiguous but it's not enforceable against anyone anyway. But - here's a site called
http://www.palestinefacts.org/ There's a discussion and then a FAQ page. One FAQ is who is the author? Answer, there are many authors. Here's the cute FAQ. Note how "lies and propaganda" are not included in the "Palestine Facts" site:
FAQ There is a lot of propaganda. Why should I believe you?
Every fact and assertion on this web site is backed-up by elaborate documentation hyperlinked right into the materials presented or available in the supplemental references. If you question anything, follow the links for more and more in-depth discussion and information. The most authoritative sources were sought and are presented for each topic. Lies and propaganda are excluded.
By the way - there is no "Right of Return" for Palestinians. There evidently was broad feeling that there should be but the resolution adopted clearly is not enforceable in any fashion and it flies directly in the face of giving the place to Israel. It's the kind of mealy mouthed nonsense from which lawsuits and wars spring.
It IS a farce, Doc - that's my point. It is beyond farcical. But it's brought to you by the same people who just bombed Lebanon. By the same people who believed their own nonsense about a couple of days of bombing and the problem is solved.
But - at the risk of REALLY appearing insensitive - what about the videos that are made of suicide bombers before they blow themselves up? Or of the IED attacks so they can be used to recruit young "freedom fighters?" Or of Moqtada al Sadr holding forth in a mosque about infidels and Islam?
I think it's trashy, tasteless and insensitive. But I understand how it comes about. And I don't think there's a whole lot that can be done about it.
Sorry - I'm talking too much. Got carried away myself
You know what, I care? I'm sitting in Florida. I'm trying to learn what's going on in that part of the world. I don't pretend to know it all and I try to maintain some balance in what I see and then interpret. But there is absolutely nothing in this entire world I can do about any of it other than write to my congressman and others to complain. I've done that.
But you seem to think I and others have something we can do about a lot of your complaints. The computer and internet are limited to communication. I can't launch a missile from mine - I can't even get the president of the United States to join me in a chat.
So lighten up - ok?
It's hard to take either side very seriously when you see Israel release their propoganda, and you read and see things about "Pallywood". Sometimes, from the West's point of view, both sides are just grabbing for straws that aren't there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallywood
You can also find the video made on youtube and other places.
Sam, you sound like an idiot spewing crap like that. You wish for other to feel pain? Hmmm.
I'm fairly pro-Israeli, and you do nothing to help the cause Sam. The attitude you take is the attitude that hurts both sides. Many on here have an anti-Israeli way to speaking just like you speak pro-Israeli, and neither way helps. Keep it calm.
I hope it works, I care. I don't know that Israel has "hijacked" our foreign policy since I don't know that we have such a thing. I wish, though, that some people here would be as incensed about what we're doing in Iraq and Afghanistan. We've been doing it now for longer than the second world war. And we have nothing good to show for it. we have killed and maimed thousands of americans and tens of thousands of iraqis. For what? We give Israel enough money and munitions and equipment to bomb Lebanon - for what? So we can spend another couple of billion dollars to rebuild it. We run around the world - from Bosnia to Africa to Panama to Indonesia - spreading "democracy" and all that we accomplish is to create more hate. And so, we now have participated with Israel in this horror.
Write and I'll scream at the moon. It is completely outrageous but it is not one sided. It is because we put some fools into office who are bound and determined to show they are tougher than the fools the other people put into office. And the women and children and old people get caught in the flow while the hotheads recruit hotheads to go yell at each other and then shoot each other.
so - continue the war and continue the yelling and continue to make light of trying to figure it out. The end then is one side or the other no longer exists. Or they just keep on shooting at each other.
Until we get some leaders in place who can think instead of act rashly, we have no hope. So long as the leaders on both sides continue to favor bloodletting over ANY other choice, we're doomed. Look, most readily, at why we got into Iraq and why we're told we can't get out. That is what is wrong in these conflicts - there is lying, cheating, fear and hate mongering by all involved. And they all line up and try to convince everyone else that they are right and the other side is wrong. So far it's working. Because, so far, the blood is still flowing.
Here's a link to, let's say, a counterbriefing from the other side of the Benador spectrum, by some folks who don't bribe Nitsana Darshan-Leitner and her shitty little lobby shop for a promise to sit in the same room with former Mossad agents and Shin Bet commanders.
It's about 90 minutes, and it's well worth your time.
Just to clarify, I am not comparing the two events, but just imagine if someone tried to profit from the Holocaust in this way. How about 9/11 --- perhaps an amusement park in the 9/11; we'd really enjoy that, right? Imagine how the Palestinian people will feel about this...that's all I'm saying.
On another note, Sam has given up being nice.Wow...that really comes as a shock to me, especially after the oh-so-kind way in which he introduced himself into this forum. Well Sam, that's fine, that means I go back to iggying you (look it up) --- and next time you have a revelation to be nice, don't expect me to fall for it.
Doc, he only listens to voices that agree with his...most of those are in his own head. Leave him be and ignore him; he will evaporate.
Like I said, Doc - let it go. Look at the typing - the scum is psychopathic. His personality disorder is that he has no personality - he's a self winding dumbtoy - he babbles and drools and makes no sense even to himself - he remembers only he hates. But he can't tell you why or any facts of any kind.
And that is the kind of person who gets others who don't think or who are powerless to do anything about it into the horrors we've been watching. It is completely insane and it's caused by babbling fools like the one you now are watching. The real problem is when people start listening to it and responding. It encourages the babble and that babble becomes loud enough that it's hard to shut out.
Just ignore the fool.
Did somebody say something?
great post, i care. And i agree...I think the people here want the truth, and they are not buying that the Administration is selling. The poll reported yesterday and today notes that Americans are not equating the war in Iraq with the war on terror. It's about time we cleared the smokescreen of what the White House wants us to believe, and to look at the situation on its merits.
And in my final reference to Sam.... it's embarassing to share love of the Red Sox with him. Maybe he'll go crashing into the Pesky Pole chasing foul balls tonight. One can hope.
I don't believe it is just the administration that is lying. Sometimes it feels like people's hatred of the president blinds them of other things. You may hate him, you may hate things he has done, you may even be right on some counts, but that doesn't mean he is out to screw the American public. That seems lost sometimes here. A lot of the real decision makers, be they both liberal and conservatives in Congress and others around the world(yes, you too, Mr. UN) are just plain political tools and sometimes they fail to do what is right. They act like those in the big business world. Everything is always done in a process or in another certain way, and it seems like following that path tends to slow things down, and take us off track sometimes.
James, no matter what his intent is, whether it is out of malice or stupidity, the end result is the same. We in America were sold a story on Iraq. That story proved to be a complete myth. Now we are mired in Iraq and the question must be begged, how are we safer now than before we invaded Iraq? Have we created allies, or enemies? Have we inspired people to look at the US as a societal model, or have we bred another generation of hate and contempt.
Yes, I hate the man, but I also have the integrity to acknowledge when someone else is right and I am wrong. If you recall, when asked Mr. Bush couldn't even recall a time he had been wrong, and that's exactly what's wrong.
Hello James and Rick
I always believed that a person who became the president of the United States must be a fundamentally good person. He may make mistakes and, obviously, he comes to office with an agenda matching that of the people who elected him. I'm old enough to remember Lyndon Johnson - in fact, I served in the Army while he was president. I remember clearly when I got back from Vietnam the nightly news had college students packing the streets singing, "1, 2, 3, 4, we don't want your fuckin' war." We had a draft in those days and I concluded all these turkeys were simply ducking their duty. I was hardcore republican and a hawk. I hated the bearded hippies running around singing their anti-american BS and would dearly loved to have had them in a boxing ring with me.
but - a lot went wrong. A lot changed my feelings about that era but I still believed it was simply a "mistake" made by a man who had been misled. There was a famous picture of the time that showed clearly his agony while he was in the white house and the bodies were piling up around him.
Recently I read the book, Dereliction of Duty. It is well written, excrutiatingly detailed and completely documented. Johnson and Macnamara were liars. Not mistaken, not misled, Liars. they actively concealed, misled and waffled. They didn't know what to do and they didn't want anyone to know they didn't know. They refused to talk to the joint chiefs. Macnamara hired his "whiz kids" who decided it was a "new kind" of war and his generals were outdated and unnecessary.
Bush is a liar. He may be (but I don't think so) well intentioned but he is a liar. To make matters worse, he is stupid. But he doesn't want people to know he's stupid so he does what he's told by people he thinks are smart - like Cheney and Rumsfeld. They didn't like Powell so he fired him or treated him so badly Powell had enough and left. Look how he explains his position on stem cell research. Look how he handled his stonewalling on a cease fire in Lebanon.
Bush has never had an original thought. He is proud to be a "C" student and he panders to his base - without a second thought. He got caught in the Iraq fiasco and did the same thing the Israeli high command is doing now - try to rationalize and redirect attention to "the future" because "what's done is done and we can't waste time on pointing fingers."
I, though, don't hate the man. He got himself elected and reelected with the help of a gang of lying, cheating, thieving people with an agenda. Go to www.sptimes.com and take a look at what's going on with Katherine Harris now - lying cheating and stealing finally caught up with her. But she was our secretary of state who got the vote fixed for Bush in 2000.
Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld almost singlehandedly have created the world situation with which we now are faced. Had they had the best interests of anyone other than themselves in mind, we would not be in the mess we are now.
C-SPAN now has a link up to the talk I mention above.. at the very least I'd suggest checking out Daniel Levy's segment (starts at 40:15) but I think the whole thing is very much worthwhile, including the Q&A.
OK, carry on..
I Care
Thanks for your kind note. I hope we'll talk more. I've seen the kinds of horror these kinds of "war" can provoke. It makes my heart hurt but it is on both sides because the people getting hurt are not the ones who caused the horror. On both sides, the people being hurt most are following - not leading. They believe because they want to believe and because they are afraid.
The people who take them down that fearful trail are evil - Jew, Muslim, American, African, English - it matters not. They exploit the fear and pain and lack of hope or the fear of losing hope.
But - what to do about it?
Shurat HaDin - Israel Law Center - is NOT a qualified US charity, in fact it's in Israel. In order to make a tax-deductible donation in the US, the web-site says send contributions to "PEF Israel Endowment Funds" in New York City. However although PEF "PEF Israel Endowment Funds" is a tax-exempt public charity it's web-site does NOT say you can take tax deductions for contributions:
http://www.pefisrael.org/pages/529600/index.htm
Public charities that take tax-deductible contributions give their contributions only to qualified "501-C3" organizations. meaning they are qualified by the IRS to take tax-deductible contributions. However "PEF Israel Endowment Funds" is being used to pass US tax-deductible contributions to foreign organizations that aren't registered with the IRS.
This looks to be a tax-avoidance scheme that should be reported to the IRS!
I don't see if how it is different from what was going on during Afghanistan war/Taliban regime. People from Saudi Arabia and other countries of the ME paid money to get to Afghanistan for couple of weeks to "experience" the war. They also paid money to whoever organized these trips.
They thought that in this way they advance THE CAUSE and get "kiks" out of it, same now in Israel. These people probably believe in fighting terrorism, they get lectures for their money and the feeling that they've done something for the CAUSE
See any difference, because I don't.
Re: M2Timechange said...
> Wake up, America! Israel is no friend of yours
This opinion article was written by the chairman of Al Habtoor Group although I have no idea how significant that is. Unfortunately for Lebanon, Israel is very important to Bush for religious reasons as is the case for many Christian conservatives. I don't see that changing especially as there is so much pro-Israeli propaganda being put out on US Christian television, which Bush himself actually seems to believe.
As Seymour Hersh said the swearing in of a new US President in January, 2009, can't come soon enough because Bush is extremely dangerous. If the Democrats win the House in November that could neutralize Bush's pro-Israeli slant somewhat.
It is heartening to read such a string of rational responses, not on whether or not I agree with them, but for the fact that the overriding theme is respect and understanding.
Like almost any American, I want to believe that Bush isn't malicious, stupid and/or evil, but the evidence is stacked pretty high against him. The fact is that our government is out of control. The good news is that mid-term elections are around the corner, and we as citizens get to decide if we want to continue on this course.
Personally, I would like to live in a world where, when I visit another nation, America is seen as a beacon, not because we inflict our values and opinions on others, but because we lead by example. I would love to be able to visit the Middle East and not feel ashamed for what my nation has been involved in. But most importantly, as a father of three children, I want to believe that I am bringing my children up in a world that can be better tomorrow than it is today, and that I am not raising my children simply for my government to throw their lives away in an unjust war. The madness must stop.
Great point, m2, and China will fill the void created by hate for America. We cut off our nose to spite our face.
Susu...a question; I couldn't tell from the "tone" of your post, were you being ironic? Because my first impression was that your response indicated that our nation, or more directly our government, ultimately feels that it benefits from all the lunacy and destruction. By keeping us afraid, the can maintain control. But I wasn't sure if that was what you intended.
As I mentioned in a post above, for those who have not seen it, please see the movie, "V for Vendetta." It is a disturbing glimpse into what the US, the UK, and Israel are turning into. And it will continue until as citizens we speak up.
I think I understand Susu's frustration, Rick - it's born of the kind of hopelessness created by an inability to do anything about the situation. Susu is genuinely talking from her (I think "her" is right) heart.
But, Susu - read some of what others on all sides are saying. The "countries" are not, necessarily, "the people." That is what is wrong with saying "Lebanon must eliminate Hezbollah." As if Lebanon can. And, since Lebanon doesn't or cannot, then it's "those arabs" or those "islamic fascists." The United States has the largest economy in the world and swings a lot of weight economically and militarily. But not all the people in the US agree with what is going on and eventually will change it. Not because it's not "in our interest" but because we don't think it's right. It's happened before - "we, the people" rose up and demanded an end to the Vietnam nightmare. We demanded an end to corruption in government and elected Jimmy Carter - not because of his brilliance and abilities, but because he was and is a decent man who reflected the qualities we want in our leaders. At that time, at least. Fear, hate and lies got us into Iraq. Calmer, wiser people will get us out.
Don't lose your faith in goodness It will prevail. It is Gotterdamerung. But, remember - the Rhine Maidens survived.
Sam - let's call a truce in the filthfest for a moment and try understanding. You seem to want to make a point but you do it in ways that are inexplicable. You seem to favor Israel and the United States but you say things and say them in a way that makes everyone - regardless of their views - look at you as nuts, make fun of you and then ignore you.
Why do you do that? Now you post a long piece of nonsense you got in one of those "don't break the chain - send this to at least five of your friends in the next ten minutes" emails that most of us delete as spam. You post, apparently without reading, an Israeli Ministry of Tourism article and say it demonstrates why Israel is right and everyone else is wrong. You talk filth constantly and usually don't even attempt to make sense - you seem to simply spew words without regard to either their meaning or effect.
Why? Why not join in a meaningful way? Why not open your mind to learning something you may not know? Why not try to make friends rather than enemies? Why do you insist on talking as you do knowing it makes you look foolish and hateful?
All you really accomplish is to show the effect of unthinking, unreasonable hate on any attempt to communicate. Which, of course, is the main reason the middle east stays in turmoil.
Nicely said, Mr. Wrath. I suppose you think my complaint is because I do "grow flowers in a VW bug, wear tie-dye, and shun any thoughts that exclude absolute peace and a big hug for everyone."
My complaint is not about his having different views - I invite them and, had you read anything I've written here, you would understand that.
My complaint is his referring to the women here as "cunts" and spewing his vile filth about all religions. It is not "childish" - it is ku klux klan kind of hate mongering. He tried for weeks to bait me with his vile comments about the troops in my command who died. Even now he tries to bait me the same way. That's not a "different view" - that is vile filth.
then the renaissance based on the idea it was an experiment to see if anyone could forgive such a hateful person. And now the second coming - based on no one could forgive him so he will go back to his hateful ways.
My purpose was to simply ask why he couldn't join in some meaningful way - not agree with me or join in a group hug. Just stop the crap and speak like a grown up. I know he disagrees with my opinion - or at least I think he does when I wade through the filth to see if something really is buried there.
But - my attempt was simply to stop all of that. And in you come with the idea I am so closed minded that I would write such a thing. And you come wandering in to say "I 100% agree with Sam that Muslims for decades have been violent terrorists, but OMFG if I say that....well I must be brainwashed by the US media, or uneducated, or whatever else you deem people who disagree with your opinion.... "
It's not the US Media or uneducated people who have "brainwashed" you. It's simply your decision to disagree with no inclination to veer from your "100% agreement" that "Muslims for decades have been violent terrorists." Sort of like, "niggers cant float and for sure shouldn't be able to vote." Right?
LOL.... oh, don't you just wish that the hippie stereotype applied to those of us preaching peace. If only life were that easy.
I am a moderate, and normally a hawk in military situations. But as I began to look at the root causes of this conflict, as I have seen our troops come home and tell me they had no idead why we are even in Iraq, a reasonable person must stop gobbling up what is being fed to us and take our own critical look.
For Gawd sakes, I voted for King George I in 1988 and completely supported the first war in Iraq. I still support that effort. But I can view each situation on its own merits (rather than blindly follow) and can tell you in no uncertain terms that the current war in Iraq is illegal. And I am very concerned that our current policy of "Fu*k it, let's invade them" diminishes our nation internally, as well as how others view us. Finally, as I posted before, I am not raising three children so that my government can use them as fodder for economic or political interests.
You are welcome to your opinion supporting US and Israeli policy. I think it is short-sighted, but I respect your right to have that view. However, you have not been on here calling people "cunts." There is never an excuse for that type of behavior, and Sam is getting treated the way he deserves to be treated.
He doesn't like it? Too bad; go get a tissue. I choose to ignore him so that I don't even find myself tempted to dig my way down to his level.
Good for you - it's a good person who will look inward. I don't support what Bush or Israel has done either. But I simply cannot stomach psychopathic chickenhawks like "Sam". He is more than happy to send others into battle to kill whoever it is who is the target of his ire. He doesn't have to have the vaguest idea of what he's talking about - he just spews hate and filth and then sends the kids into harms way. When he's challenged he reacts with the vilest imaginable filth - even filth that is completely unimaginable. Like wondering if I sodomized the soldier who died in my arms. Jump to the top topic here and see how he is now/
Glad to meet you.
Thanks Mr. Wrath, and I welcome a discussion on why Muslims are so angry at the West. There are some very legitimate reasons, and then some that are trumped up simply so that radicals can appear less radical. There is truth on both sides. My concern is that the good old US of A only hears one side of the story, because only one side will be tolerated. As a nation, we glorify freedom of the press, but then permit our press to be owned by conglomerates that give in to political pressure. That is not a "free" press. The report on CNN this past week about Israel inviting attacks by intentionally leaving weapons behind for Hezbollah, and how quickly it disappeared, should establish in a reasonable person's mind that we are not getting the full story. That's why I started visiting blogs like this; so I could become informed and educated.
I am a believer that we can agree or disagree and still remain civil, and if everyone posting on this blog believed that I think there would be some incredibly productive discussions. I value posts from hcb, lilu, doc, lola, chris and others because I gain enlightenment out of what they have to say, and I am sure I can learn from you as well. I love the information posted by the authors of this blog because it shows me another perspective... one I won't gain from CNN, Fox, CBS, or for that matter even al Jazeera.
But I'll keep watching CNN, if only because Soledad O'Brien is so hot! :-)
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