Monday, August 14, 2006

A bunch of Gangs

Sunday the 13th of August – two days after Resolution 1701 was unanimously agreed on and one day before the cease-fire became effective. Hopes in Lebanon, and surely in Israel, were high. Will we have quiet? Will this lead to a lasting peace? My instincts tell me no, unfortunately. Let me share with you why.
Try and imagine that you have just lived through a month-long conflict which has not only destroyed your country but has also completely drained you. All day long, for one entire month, news of death, destruction and sounds of explosions just a couple of kilometers away. Suddenly and out of the blue all the rumors that this conflict will last much longer than anticipated evaporated when Resolution 1701 was voted for. And even though we couldn’t put too much faith in it, we had to admit that it was definitely a step in the right direction. We are hopeful.
This Sunday was a beautiful day indeed. The world officially agreed on the cease-fire. Nasrallah officially agreed on the cease-fire. The Lebanese government officially agreed on the cease-fire. All that remained was Israel’s cabinet to officially agree on the cease-fire on that sunny Sunday.
Now try and imagine that after that long month, all you needed was a moment of relaxation, a moment of peace. At last you could lie down and start believing that miracles do happen. You fall asleep with that thought in your mind believing that the future will become a great one. But before you could actually allow that dream to materialize an unbelievable set of explosions resonate throughout all of Beirut. 18 massive missiles were dropped on Beirut’s southern suburbs in less than a minute. Yes, less than a minute. Never during the entire conflict did such a set of explosions take place. And as soon as the TV is turned on to see what just happened, a breaking news alert appears on the bottom of the screen which read: “The Cabinet of Israel has officially agreed on the cease-fire.” A cease-fire indeed, it was like a ‘grande finale’. And 30 minutes after the massive explosions took place, the news stated that Hizbullah launched its largest barrage of rockets on Northern Israel in one day since the start of the conflict – an unbelievable total of some 250 rockets.
People in Lebanon continuously tell me that this is the way a cease-fire takes place, with a grande finale. Well all I can think of is that there are two parties which only want one thing: to fight each other. This is their way of saying it’s not the end.


Anonymous Saif said...

I do not think this is the end...

First thing, hisb. did was, to claim this cease fire as a victory. On more of such victorys and our Country is gone....

(Sorry for my bad English)

12:28 PM  
Blogger Sarmad said...

Unfortunately I agree with your assessment. Israel won't accept that they have lost this war. There has to be a change to their government. Olmert, Peretz and Livni have to be removed.

The outcome of this war has far fetched implications. It may even change the American aggressive policy towards Iran, and make them review their intentions of waging war against it.

1701 is too vague for it to be completely implementable. It needs to be followed up quickly by a second Resolution that ties up the loose ends.

What's most important now is for the Lebanese government to be strong and united on all fronts.

12:34 PM  
Blogger Bash said...

This is the pattern. It's same story over and over again at the end of every war between us and them.

12:45 PM  
Blogger Bash said...

...and this is why *I* think it's the end (at least from Israel's side)

12:46 PM  
Blogger faylasoof said...

Once again, Lebanon has been hijacked by foreign powers who use our land to fight their wars, all on the backs of our civilians.

History has a habit of repeating itself. I will not be surprised if something like this happens again in 1, 2, 5, or 10 years. And that's assuming that the current invasion is over. Time, as they say, will tell. Let's hope history is able to shake off this habit, for the sake of our children.

I don't know about the rest of you, but my back is beginning to ache.

1:30 PM  
Anonymous enough pointing said...

actually, if most Lebanese realize that we also have a gang we wouldn't be in this mess

2:49 PM  
Anonymous hassam said...

maybe you wanna show theese in your blogs:


3:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hassam, so what?
Israel are still the LOSERS!

3:42 PM  
Blogger HCB said...

A question for our Israeli friends on this blog: Has there been any news in your press or tv about when Israel intends to begin sending money and materiel to repair the damage done to the infrastructure?

4:46 PM  
Anonymous lola said...

I like your question HCB, but i don't think Lebanon will even accept anything from Israel other than them leaving us the F alone!

4:54 PM  
Blogger HCB said...

Understood, Lola. But reparations are due and you shouldn't refuse them - it feels good at the moment to say F you. But imagine how good it will feel to have a nice new airport with a plaque at the entrance saying, "funded in part by the IDF as ordered by the UN and human beings around the world." And imagine how it would feel to see the IDF in uniform wading along the beach scooping up oil.

5:24 PM  
Anonymous lola said...

That would be a good sight not to be missed :)

5:36 PM  
Blogger Lilu said...

please be realistic. The Israeli government doesn't have enough money to take care of its own citizens when they are being bombed, and we have great rebuilding to do here now too. Besides, there are more important things to focus on first and bigger wounds to heal from, and I sincerely hope you will all be the grown ups I know you are and not look for more reasons to get angry and look to humiliating people. Don't be children, that is not the way to guarantee peace, it is just further creating antagonism - the point of progress is one of collaboration and acceptance. I said it before and I say it again - change needs to start somewhere, MIGHT AS WELL BE HERE.
Would you get Hizballah to pay for the Haifa train, and the rebuilding of almost all of Kiryat Shmona, Nahariya, Zafed, etc.? will Hizballah be sending money to the people of Maghar? how about just returning Karnit Goldwasser's husband first?

Maybe each side that is responsible for the situation, namely the Israeli government and Hizballah, would be best paying their dues to their own people whom they have put in the line of fire. I for one would like to see Hizballah sell its arms and donate the money to the rebuilding of Lebanon, how about that? and wouldn't Hizballah soldiers be better off cleaning up the beaches rather than regrouping for future conflicts? after all, shouldn't those soldiers be out of work now?

6:30 PM  
Blogger HCB said...

First, Lilu, read this from MSNBC this morning:

The Israeli military also dropped leaflets on central Beirut early Monday, warning it would retaliate for any attack launched against it from Lebanon.

One leaflet said Hezbollah serves the interests of its Iranian and Syrian patrons and has “brought destruction, Lebanon against the State of Israel.” Addressed to Lebanon’s citizens, it said, “Will you be able to pay this price again?”

I suppose what you REALLY mean is that the US paid for this "war" by Israel and it will pay for the damage done. Similar to the US evacuating citizens from the impact of our "friends" bombs. Israel has no money? It has enough to pull 30,000 soliers and its air force for the invasion but it has nothing to do repairs with? It would be "humiliating?" Do you mean as the US is humiliating itself trying to rebuild Iraq? Or as it is humiliating itself in giving so much to Israel so Israel could spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on EACH "smart" bomb it used in its "precision" bombing of men, women and children, roads, bridges, oil fields and the airport?

It simply creates "antagonism?" But you want to "guarantee" peace? By bombing the country flat and then saying, "tough luck - we don't have enough to help you rebuild." Change needs to start an it "might as well be here?" Your comments, Lilu, as are insensitive as Ms Rice saying we're witnessing the birthpangs of the "new mideast" - the one designed by her, Bush and Olmert.

Would the Lebanese get Hizbllah to pay for the things you list? I'll go one better - I'll bet the Lebanese would be willing to give you a credit for that damage - you wouldn't even have to worry about having it paid by Hizballah. Take whatever it costs off the billions and billions needed to rebuild Lebanon. And getting Goldwasser's husband back? You don't really want to go there - the list of people Israel needs to return is even longer than the list of US "detainees."

Maybe each "side" is responsible? Maybe so but you've got the "sides" mixed up. As your prime minister and our king have been saying, the real problem is Iran and Syria. But you chose to destroy a defenseless neighbor in the attempt to impess them - rather than simply taking them on and solving what Olmert and Bush says is the real problem. It is cowardly and unforgiveable what's been done - Israel destroyed a country that could not defend itself and was not - even by Israeli accounts - the source of Israel's upset. And now your evil, evil men in charge threaten to do more if Hezbollah isn't brought under control by Lebanon. On the one hand your PM says Lebanon cannot do it - an Israeli or International Force is needed. On the other, he says he'll restart the destruction if Lebanon doesn't do as he demands.

Evil cowards, Lilu. And you're right - change needs to start somewhere. Start it by ridding yourselves of the evil cancer growing at the top of your government. And then, start it by having some compassion - not excuses - compassion for the people your country has made so completely miserable.

7:03 PM  
Blogger a sane voice in a mad world said...

Lilu, how much Israel gets in aid from the US?

and how much military equipment at subsidised rates, often written off?

Israel is an extension of imperial US.

7:15 PM  
Anonymous Guess Who said...

As always the blinders are on and the view is a joke. The US tax payers will pay the most in rebuilding Lebanon, and the Lebanese will still hate us. So what, it's the story of our life-time. The world expects the USA to be the wallet like a father, but like a spoiled child they/you take the money but turn right around and call a dick as you go out the door to do what ever you want. We will never stop funding poor countries like Lebanon but it would be nice that they stop being so two faced. Israel should pay cent unless Lebanon, Iran, Hezbollah & Syria pay for all of the damage to Israel. Lebanon is as liable as the IDF because they failed to disarm Hezbollah and or be a strong force in their own country. Instead they sat back and watched Hezbollah enforce the southern part of the country and sat back and watched a Hezbollah fighting force cross the boarder and kill 8 Israeli soldiers and abduct 2 more.

You will never see a plaque in the airport nor a single IDF soldier on your beach. You guys clean up the messes; you started it by being so weak and supporting two governments within the same country. That’s what happens when you support terrorist, you pay the ultimate price.

7:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If Israel is part of the Imperial US, then Lebanon is an extension of the Terrorist countries of Iran and Syria. Guess how is with the winning side. I know everyone one will say “Oh America Sucks, I would never live there and so on……..” Guess what, more and more of your kinds of people are moving here every day. Trust me you can’t go to any gas station or quickie mart without running into some from that part of the world. When is the last time a war was fought on our shores? And if you answer 9/11 then your confusing war with some confused chicken shit terrorist that can’t fight an army so they go after bookkeepers and secretaries.

7:27 PM  
Blogger HCB said...

Well said, "guess who." Post it somewhere you'll see it each time you hear of another "terror" incident. It is precisely people like you who breed the "terrorists." You bitch and moan about not being liked even if the US rebuilds Lebanon. But you don't think how you would react if it was YOUR home that was destroyed. You talk without thinking or reason - if Lebanon was to rid itself of Hezbollah and you're so confident it could have, why are Bush and Olmert and the UN even talking about Lebanon being incapable of doing it - even after a month of bombing. Why did Israel not succeed in doing it?

What, Guess who, was the purpose of destroying the airport? The bridges? The roads? What was accomplished by missile attacks on ambulances or bombing a building full of refugees? If you say the "mess" needs to be cleaned up, why not go to the source of the mess?

I'm glad there are relatively few of you - there are many truly evil people in charge of the destruction. But there are relatively few who simply froth at the mouth and speak their nonsense born of prejudice and a refusal to inform themselves of even the most basically important facts.

Oh - and I've already been told that if I don't like it I should renounce my US Citizenship and move to France. So - see if you can come up with something new. Just for the sake of variety.

7:31 PM  
Anonymous guess who said...

If there are so few of us, why is our country still providing support to Israel? Who voted Bush in office, um..... Well that would be the majority. So there are a few more of my kind then yours.

They bombed to stop the flow of arms into the country and try and stop the removal of the kidnapped soldiers to Iran or Syria. Plus the terrorist use ambulances and other civil modes of transport to get weapons in. Israel did make a few mistakes but so what.

Don’t leave the country, please stay. It would be no fun without people like you to infuriate and mock at parties.

7:50 PM  
Blogger HCB said...

Oh my goodness, it's Sammie the wet fart again. With yet ANOTHER name.

Sammy – you are such a wee, silly little thing. You are so terminally stupid you actually enjoy – like a complete fool – being told you are stupid and foolish. You are not simply a wet fart – you are a sometimes sweet but always stupid little doggie yapping around my feet because you live only for the notice and attention of your master. But, as is usually the unfortunate case with little yappy dogs, you’ve peed on the carpet. Bad Sammy Doggie. Sammy the wet fart was bad, but Sammie the yapping little pee doggie – well, enough. So I’m going to have to discipline you. I can’t bring myself to slap such a stupid but cute little doggie because I know the little doggie doesn’t understand. But, Sammie the wet fart yappy little pee doggie, I can’t have you in here peeing on the floor in front of my friends. So – it’s outside with you until you’ve peed yourself empty, cleaned yourself up and are ready to go back under the bed. I know, I know – you’re going to yap and yap and yap all the way to the door. But – there. Now go outside and roll in the grass until you’re clean and smell better. Then we’ll let you back under the bed and you can peek out and watch the grown ups and your master. Watch out for the cat, Sammie. Oh – never mind. Cat caught a whiff and is turning around.

::poof:: Sammie’s all gone.

7:56 PM  
Blogger Rick said...

Actually, the "majority" didn't vote Bush into office. If you recall your history correctly, the first election was STOLEN, thus removing any "mandate" this President could ever claim.

George W. Bush is determined to wreck both the credibility of the United States and its military. Any enemy of the United States could not hope for more.

7:59 PM  
Anonymous guess who said...

Oh ya, I breed terrorist, that’s ripe. The Muslim Fanatics are whiners that complain because they feel so oppressed and stifled by the Imperialist white man. Why don’t you see more white Muslims? Wow good question, because the white man realized a long time ago [well most] that you are in control of your own destiny. If you desire a higher salary, go to school and join society in a way that is conforming. Learn skills that are conducive to a higher salary and or a better way of life.

Terrorists are breed from lazy uneducated [for the most part] people. They want things handed to them; they don’t want to earn it like the majority. They move into our countries and refuse to conform and they act like babies saying that were treated different. Sure we do treat them different, shave the beard and don’t try to wear a dress to work, this isn’t the desert. Immigrants have learned to fit in to join a community and be prosperous, Muslims haven’t. They expect all of us to join them and wear towels, robes and worship a false god. Since most of us don’t they try to kill us, hurt our families and take over the world.

8:01 PM  
Anonymous SAm said...

Ha Ha the bitter Dems are still whining..... Sore losers, so twice he stole it. What a crock. What excuse will they use next, every time a Dem loses out come the cries of voter fraud.

Grow up and face the fact that the Dems are losers and on the ropes.

As to Sammie, of ya!!!!! I'm never leaving, you guys keep me focused on the gold ring.

8:04 PM  
Anonymous sam said...

Wow Rick, what do you keep writing that is being deleted?

8:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sam, i missed you. How was your weekend? Did you get your thoughts together? Did you think of smarter things to post on the blog?

8:32 PM  
Anonymous sam said...

I attended an Anti Israeli protest on Saturday in LA I was shocked with the people supporting the Lebanon’s and Muslims. I thought I was disgusted with the Muslims before, well now I've seen it first hand. There were about 20 of us Pro Israeli supporters in a group and I did show up with a Leb flag and one home made yellow terrorist flag too. I did buy a copy of the Koran after work on Friday, I tried reading it for a bit but my friends all wanted to meet up to watch the baseball games. I know, I put the book down to go have fun and not be miserable like of you people are.

There were a group of Radical Muslims, go figure that were bringing the whole group of [well a good amount] of supporters down in spirits. I started talking to the pro Israeli people some of who were Jewish and the some Gentiles. I was lied to by one of the people on this blog site. It does state in the Koran that the infidels must be wiped out. In more words than that but it is true and that’s why no one would answer the question. Instead of burning the flags we placed them on the ground and used them to wipe our feet on. I couldn’t fine any terrorist flags of Syria or Iran and didn’t have time to make those too so I stuck with just two. The Jewish people asked me not to destroy the Koran in the ways I stated because it would most likely start a riot. So me being me I tour pages from it and just tossed them in the trash in front of many Muslims. Oh ya, real smart……… Nothing happened to me but they threatened my family, none of which was there but they acted like they could find them. To funny, so all in all it strengthened my resolve and disgust toward a people and religion. Not hate mind you, if they could accept us as equals and stop beating the martyr drum the world would be a better place. Put the box cutters and liquid explosives down and pick a book and try reading. Well minus the hate filled book called the Koran. The book of Hate & Lies.

No need to be anon. I'm not going to call you names and such.

8:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kevin From USA
Guess who: to correct you Bush was not voted in by the majority. He lost the popular vote he won by the electoral vote. Before everyone out there starts hating all Americans please remember that we all were not for the war and who won or how lost doesn't matter. The fact is unless we all get along and try to see things from the other side peace will never have a chance. As for all the Bush bashing I have heard him speak and I do believe that he is not evil just misguided we should not hate him but pray for him to see things differently. He relay wants all the world to be at peace and every one to have a government that represents them. He is just all wrong as to how to go about it. I was as wrong as him when this war broke out and thanks to this blog and you people I now know that. There is hope but it is in understanding not hate.
P.S I voted for Bush sorry

9:08 PM  
Anonymous sam said...

Don't be sorry, He's a great President. He is doing a good job, it's just hidden under the hate and lies coming from the Dems.

10:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

TO MRTEZ:Hizbollah are a "gang"??!! Is this your definition of an organised Lebanese political party who defeated one of the strongest armies in the world, while defending it's own territory?? A political party who has representatives in the Lebanese government, who has one of the best social security systems for its members...

12:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Defeated the Jews..... Ha Ha your guys are so blind. You really do think you won, count the graves and ask who won?

12:10 AM  
Blogger Rick said...

George W. Bush Resume

Past work experience:

* Ran for congress and lost.
* Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.
* Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.
* Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using tax-payer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox.
* With fathers help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas.

Accomplishments as Governor:

* Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union.
* Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog ridden city in America.
* Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money.
* Set record for most executions by any Governor in American history.
* Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my fathers appointments to the Supreme Court.

Accomplishments as president:

* Attacked and took over two countries.
* Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
* Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
* Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
* Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
* First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
* First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
* First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.
* After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.
* Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.
* In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
* Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.
* Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.
* Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
* Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
* Signed more laws and executive orders circumventing the Constitution than any president in US history.
* Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
* Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
* Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
* Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. (
* Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
* My presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history.
* Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleezza Rice has an Chevron oil tanker named after her).
* Had more states to simultaneously go bankrupt than any president in the history of the United States.
* Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.
* Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
* Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.
* First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.
* First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.
* Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.
* Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
* Withdrew from the World Court of Law.
* Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
* First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).
* All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
* My biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
* Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.
* First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
* First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
* First US president to establish a secret shadow government.
* Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
* With a policy of 'dis-engagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.
* Assisted the Israeli government in slaughtering more than a thousand innocent Lebanese citizens as a preparation for invading Iran (anticipated completion of Fall '07)
* Fist US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
* First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
* Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
* Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.
* Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.
* Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects.
* In the 18 months following the 911 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
* Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.
* In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.
* Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

Records and References:

* At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).
* AWOL from National Guard and Deserted the military during a time of war.
* Refuse to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.
* All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
* All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
* All minutes of meetings for any public corporation I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
* Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public review.
* For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker (They can be reached at their offices of the Carlyle Group for war-profiteering.)

12:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

An Rick he still won!!!!!!! WooHoo

12:53 AM  
Blogger Rick said...

I'm glad you can be so proud of those "accomplishments." George W. Bush is becoming the worst president in our history. Congratulations.

1:04 AM  
Blogger Lilu said...

Howard, you should take a breath before you reply and read more carefully. Most of the time I try to be subtle and phrase my opinions with care so as not to step on any toes, expecting the intelligent people to figure out what I'm trying to say without having to be obvious. But apparently I have over estimated some people.

When I spoke of 'humiliation', I was refering to you and lola's gleeful hackling at the image of the IDF scooping oil off Lebanese beaches. So, this is what will make you happy then? this will bring the healing? seeing a 20 year old kid who doesn't understand what he is doing there, stripped of his dignity, with Lebanese folks standing by laughing as you did there? this, to you, is the way to achieve dialog and understanding? no, it's just revenge. So much for being sensitive. I thought we established already, revenge isn't going to get us anywhere. And I can guarantee you, by the way, that wouldn't contribute anything positive to the shaping of the Lebanese in that Israeli kid's eyes. It would probably have the same effect as the Israeli bombs on an ordinary Lebanese kid (which many here were so intent on explaining that it is just doing Israel more damage). But I guess at this point that doesn't matter anymore, you can stop being 'civilised' and 'forward thinking' now, it's back to dignity and ego, you don't have any responsibility anymore now there's a cease fire.

Stop jumping so high everytime an Israeli says something, and take a second to think. I wasn't talking in general, I was talking specifically about the comments made here.
You've gone too far again. Would good do you think that is doing, I wonder. This is what I meant by "change starts here" - it starts with you. Enough finger pointing, enough!!!! how about picking yourself up and being physically productive?

And a word regarding your attack on my saying that Israel doesn't have enough money - well, here's something you probably didn't know - yeah, the IDF pulled 30,000 troops into combat, and it didn't have enough money to pay for it. I imagine you didn't know some troops were fighting without supplies because the army didn't have enough to give them - like a certain reserve platoon that found itself in the field without food or water for a day and a half, as well as some basic gear like dust goggles that was taken previously in favor of troops in Gaza.
Howard, seems you know an awful lot about Israel's foreign affairs, but you know nothing of it's internal affairs. And I wonder how you can permit yourself to judge so harshly a people you obviously barely know anything about (and just in case you didn't get that - I wasn't talking leadership I was refering to most ordinary Israelis).

I guess we're back to that again - let's repeat our mistakes, that will undoubtedly ensure we don't end up in the same old battle, wont it.

1:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's interesting that you mention "the Jews" rather than the Israelis...i'd like to know what non-Zionist Jews have to say about that...was it a slip on your part? This is the second time that Israel will withdraw from Lebanon...and most probably the last...just watch your backs

1:15 AM  
Blogger HCB said...

Lilu - I've come to like you and I don't mean to attack you. Not personally. But, dammit, what's been done is wrong. I know Israel has been attacked and I know Israelis have been hurt and I know Israel has been fighting for its existence since it came into existence. I also know a little of the jewish history - not zionist but jewish.

And I agree with you - finger pointing and general condemnation will get us nowhere. But when you talk about humiliation I'm reminded of the videos on the Breaking the Silence site to which you referred me. The entire point was humiliation of the Palestinians. I don't mean tit-for-tat necessarily but I also don't think it's appropriate to say, simply, "well - that's over and done with so now let's move on." You better than I know the importance of "honor" and "face" in the middle east. You better than I know the reason kids blow themselves up just so they can kill some Israelis or jews is because they have hate and despair so deeply in their system they look forward to martyrdom - at least what they are told that means - and doing something - anything - to hurt Israelis.

Israel has the greater part of the educated masses, I think. It's for sure Israel has the greater technology and wealth in the area. Israel must take the lead in making the change you so correctly say is needed.

But I do not mean to anger you - I sincerely mean that. I DO think there is evil in charge - not just there but in Washington, D.C. I think Cheney and Olmert miscalculated badly on this one - very badly. And I think the result is that one of two things have to happen. A general war or some very sincere moves toward making peace. Not letting peace happen but pursuing it just as aggressively as war.

Don't respond to provocation with anger, Lilu. I know it's inbred with so many people hating Israelis and trying to hurt them. But that attitude has to be changed. It's not possible to do it militarily - it simply is not possible to "win" a war on terror. It must be that fair minded, thoughtful people like you take the lead. You and Carmel who I apparently also have angered.

I can only ask you to understand the terrible feelings I have when I see so much death and destruction worked by such a powerful country on such a weak one. I don't imagine you did it and I don't imagine that the majority of Israelis will think it was a good thing after the enormity of the assault is realized. That's what has happened in the United States - the enormity of the Iraq fiasco is finally sinking in. And support for that misadventure is dissolving.

Please, Lilu - accept my apology if you thought I was attacking you. It's Bush and Olmert and Cheney and Rumsfeld and Prevetz who I want in my sights. It's the Israeli people I hope will do what I also hope the American people will do - see the evil for what it is and make it change.


1:35 AM  
Anonymous sam said...

Hcb, still here huh. That smell on my finger is from your sister or daughter, they're the same out there in the South aren't they.

So do you have some daughters, we love it when the dumb girls come from the south to Cali. they're easy and dumb. Tell them a few things and then show them some shights and wham! they're on their knees. I do have to admitt the best blow jobs are from southern girls. So do you have any that can come over here, over 18 please. I'm not a rapist like your male family tree. You said I have a little dick so I won't hust them to much.

1:45 AM  
Blogger Lilu said...

sam - please go away. just go away.

hcb, it is hard not to get angry when people who live on the other side of the ocean call your country evil. When you say Israel is evil, it's like saying I am evil. I am a part of this country, I always will be, I can't NOT take such things personally.

And this is exactly the point - change starts with semantics. With respect. It starts with making sure we are always sensitive to other people's thoughts, opinions, and existence. I would never blame Lebanon for the death of Uri Grossman - I would blame Hizballah though. I would probably blame Olmert and Halutz as well for ever bringing him into that mess. But hell, that's not the point now, blaming wouldn't get me anywhere. It is time to try and fix things now, repair the damage, and each side has its share of that to do.
And as you trust me and Carmel to be fair minded, trust the majority of Israeli who are pretty sensible minded people, we will do what's necessary, we will take care of our own buisness, but please leave it to us. No one else can understand enough.
I have to tell you, your words just emphasize to me how different things appear from far away. As a civilian, I have to admit, I don't think we are so powerful at all. I think we're pretty fragile. And we are struggling. We have many internal problems, without even getting to our security issues. There's alot you just aren't aware of - I wonder if you were aware of it, maybe you would see things differently. Maybe you should come here and live a bit among us, to better understand.

2:20 AM  
Blogger HCB said...

I know, Lilu - I've been very angry but I've had the benefit of travel to other countries. Not to the mideast but to the far east and Europe. It gave me a different outlook. Here, as recently as a couple of years ago, congessmen got so angry about France not agreeing with us that the name "French Fries" was banned in the cafeteria because the congress was so insulted. The deep fried little potato slivers were renamed "Freedom Fries." The idiocy of the whole thing was completely lost on 454 representatives and 100 senators. They were going to make a statement, by god, and that was the end of it. 150 years ago the French Ambassador would have been called out for a duel with pistols.

Lilu, what was done was evil. Purely and simply. But the evil wasn't done by the Israeli people. It was done by a few in their name. And I don't think even that it was Olmert or Prevetz who engineered it. Read the Seymour Hersh article in The New Yorker - I'll send you the link to his interview when I find it. Basically, he (a well travelled and connected reporter) presents the scenario wherein high ranking generals in our air force wanted to bomb Iran but the Army and Marines said, "no way - no matter what you do, it will require boots on the ground and we're not interested in yet another fiasco." But the air force wanted to do it (Bush wasn't even aware of the discussions at the time) Then your Air Force Commander and ours met and talked and had drinks and figured out how they could save the world from the Iranian threat which was increasing because Iran might get nuclear weapons. Our Air Force had (has) a bombing plan all ready to go but worried about the troops on the ground getting in trouble with the Hezbollah rockets on that flank. Additionally, our air force was intrigued by your air force's idea of using "bunker buster" bombs in threes - drop one, drop another right behind it and then a third one - because the Iranian weapons factories supposedly are under 75 feet of rock and our nuclear bunker busters were taken off the table by our defense department. So, our air force convinced yours they should do a "shock and awe" strike on Lebanon with the idea every one would go underground for 36 hours, come up, see the destruction, blame it on Hezbollah and turn on them. Then the United States would do the same thing in Iran and the ordinary Iranian would blame the destruction on the mullahs, convert and become a democracy. Cheney loved the idea and Bush, of course, simply nodded. Olmert signed on and then they waited for the trigger. The problem was that your air force couldn't get it done - ground troops were needed. Clearly they'd be needed in Iran as well. So that part was canceled.

That's the evil I mean - to conceive of such an idea and believe it would work is simply stupidity. But it was sold to the Israeli public, the American public and the world as a necessity in the "war on terror." When the Lebanese didn't react by the script, they were blamed for having not gotten rid of hezbollah themselves (by the way - how is Hezbollah properly spelled?)

It was an adventure gone wrong. The premise was a lie and resulted in unimaginable suffering. I don't blame Israel solely - Israel would not have attempted such a thing if it hadn't arranged support and cover with the US long before the assault. But I blame the people of both countries if they don't do something about it. If the Israeli and American governments are so convinced the Lebanese government should bring the Hezbollah to heel, then we damned sure ought to be able to bring our own governments to heel.

I don't take it personally any longer when someone somewhere says my country is evil. I know what they mean. I know they think regular americans are not bad people and I think the same of Israelis. I'd love to visit - just as I'd love to see Beirut. I truly have enjoyed meeting you and others through this site and I will try to temper my outbursts so as not to alienate you. But I really do remember Vietnam and the feeling of anger I have when I think what was done. I read "Dereliction of Duty" - all about the lies foisted by Johnson and Macnamara on the American public in support of the war and I thought of one buddy who was killed early on. He and I were classmates and met his wife at the same time. He never saw his son. I think how awful it must be to be in Israel or Palestine or any of those places because so many live in fear and have no way personally to do anything about the source of the fear. But I think how easily it should be resolved - just people getting along. but then comes the semantics and the face saving and the honor and the blood feuds. We had it here in the US - still do in many areas. Blacks are hated. And feared. Women are taking over the world. The disparity between rich and poor gets greater and the middle class is going broke.

but - what to do? All we can do is try to get our leaders to at least talk. If they can spread fear so easily, perhaps they can spread friendship.

I have just gotten the finest recording I've ever had of Tchaikovsky's fourth, fifth and sixth symphonies. Valeri Gergiev and the Vienna Philharmonic. I've listened to the fourth on the way home. Now I will listen to the Fifth. It's two or three in the morning there but the sun is just going down here. Sleep well, Lilu

3:01 AM  
Blogger HCB said...

By the way - it's a great compliment to me that you give my writing such serious thought. It's important, Lilu - you were affected by what I said and that is a very great compliment. Especially since it affected you as it did - that means you care what I said. And that is a huge step in communication.

3:34 AM  
Blogger Lilu said...

but of course, why not..? an intelligent opinion is one to be respected and taken into account. Plain and simple.

3:43 AM  
Blogger Rick said...

lilu, as someone who is very critical of and angry with Israel, I think it is always important to distinguish between the government and the nation's people. I agree with hcb, you are intelligent and a great poster, and while we may not agree with everything you say, I respect your point of view. Even on my own blog, I responded to your well-spoken comment with an acknowledgement that I might be wrong on the point you raised.

Additionally, I speak as someone who is VERY angry with my own government, and I sure as hell hope that people don't judge me based on their opinions of George Bush and the rest of the circus that we call an administration. None the less, I appreciate how angry the rest of the world is with my government, and I respect that anger. I in no way judge all Israelis based on your leaders.

Here's hoping your nation, and Lebanon, get to live in peace.

3:53 AM  
Anonymous i care said...

My husbands brother and sister both lost their homes in the "final" bombing. Just what did Isreal gain from this. I will meet with my representatives, they will answer to their undying support for Isreal. They will answer to our Arms Export Control Act and International Law. The time has come, real debates re supporting Isreal should begin in America. The stale rhetoric has a flat tire, the air is fizzing out. Americans check out the second largest lobby group taking your hard earned dollars: American Isreali Public Action Committee or AIPAC in your internet search. It is your money!

9:08 AM  
Anonymous sam said...

Sorry what ever the hell you name is. Here to stay.

HCB, not man enough to use your name? What ever I can say whatever to your little band of hippies and whiners too. I'm hidden behind the same screen. The only one with nerve to give out info is Rick but he still has a weak Dem outlook like the rest of you.

I listened to a Left Wing radio station this am called Air America. You guys keep telling the world that Fox & CCN are one sided. Oh my god, I can see why you guys all are against America. The only things the Dem’s are good at is slander. They can't fix a problem but they sure can make it worse. To the Leb's, the people that are blowing smoke up your butts from the states are so far out in Disney Land it's not even funny. The show was comical; I almost thought it was a stand up act. So keep aligning yourself with these people. They’re just lazy people who can’t make a difference so the blame the people who are willing to at least try. I bet every American that is against Israel is also part of some union. You’re too stupid to be in the private work force.

6:21 PM  
Blogger phishster said...

Sam GIVE IT UP!!!!

CNN international is not one sided but CNN in America is one sided!

Anyway, congradulations to the Lebanese people...Israel lost and we won!!

Israel was shocked by the power and strength of Hezbullah...they planned this war for months and maybe even years and they are the losers!!!!


8:58 PM  

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