Pump Up the Volume
This short video (taken by jnbptst on July 17th) gives you a little glimpse of the unnatural sounds we have been hearing in Beirut. In it, you will hear a mixture between a distant explosion and an Israeli F-16 jet fighter flying low after the attack. Keep in mind that the explosion that you see on the screen is some 5-7 kilometers away, at least. Any closer and not only would your windows shatter, but your ear drums would be permanently damaged too. This video only shows you a very little glimpse of the true sounds we are hearing. One important aspect that is also missing is the shock wave of the explosion - a horrible wave which your body feels inside out.
Our biggest problem is that we can never know when an explosion will occur as there are absolutely no warning sirens in the city. You could be walking, driving, eating, bathing or sleeping and suddenly stopped short. And if you think you get used to the sounds, believe me, its impossible. If anything the more you hear them, the more stressful they become. They munch straight through your bones, wherever you are in the city.
I will attempt to gather more videos of the explosions.
posted by beirutlive at 11:27 AM
131 Comments:
the sounds are creepy
terrible, Im sorry you have to live like this, but Im also sorry for the Israelis that need to cope with the bloody ruthless atcks from Lebanon (Hez)
these (sonic vibe) bombs have been used in the occupied region in Gaza since rather some time .. pregnant women abort or give birth ................... it hurts, yes ... wish you to be strong
This is what Americans need to know about. I feel for you and yours and wish you well. The closest thing I could come to understanding how these sounds and shock waves must feel is when I lived in Los Angeles and experienced a 6.5 earthquake. Very traumatic experience and your nerves are on edge 24hours/7 days a week. You don't know when its coming again but you know it will so you can never relax. You are in a constant state of anxiety. I pray this is over soon.
It’s unfortunate that so many innocent civilians have been hurt in this armed conflict. The destruction of your country will take many years and many billions of Euro’s to repair. You have our hopes and prayers that this conflict will reach a speedy end. May God give you the strength and courage to finally rid your country of Hezbollah so the healing can begin and you can get the respect and assistance from the world community that you deserve.
The Liberal Democratic party of the United States of America.
http://www.dmocrats.org
All this talk of "targeting civilians", when Israel does this very thing, and of course it goes unreported in the US media. Americans are so uninformed, because they won't do any independent research, and instead rely on US media which is greatly owned by Israeli sympathizers.
The US gives billions of dollars in aid to Israel every year, and what do we get for that investment? Nothing but more and more Israeli aggression, whether it be against Palestinians or now the Lebanese....civilians. Yet the American uninformed public chooses to sit back in comfort and just believe whatever they are told to believe. No wonder the rest of the world is tired of America.
All US aid to Israel should be cut off immediately, and then force Israel to face the consequences of their actions, like any other country does. Maybe then they will act like the "democratic" nation they are supposed to be, according to the US government, rather than the apartheid terrorist state they really are.
Isarel should be considered a 60-year failed experiment and left to deal with its own actions on its own. If they want peace, let them act peacefully and abide by UN sanctions that they've ignored repeatedly.
It was a ridiculous idea 60 years ago to plant a Jewish state in the middle of Arab territory and think everything would be fine. Nobody handed the Arabs their own Muslim state, nobody handed Christians their own Christian state....why the Jews? And if you call that "anti-Semitic", you're probably an American, typically uninformed.
Levine, as soon as I heard about the terrorist plot to bomb airlines in my country I knew it would fill bigoted warmongers like you with glee. But for the record, here's one British perspective. I don't hold all Muslims responsible for the plot, anymore than I hold all Jews responsible for the abominable actions of the IDF. I rejoice if it is true that a terrible crime has been prevented, though I remember how plots to fire on airliners mysteriously emerged at an opportune time for my government, when it was facing trouble with its plans for the Iraq invasion. In the long run however, I feel bitterly angry that Mr Blair has put us in the firing line, with his poodle support for the disastrous US/Israeli campaign which every day increases the strength of and support for Hizbollah.
Well said, Anonymous at 5:00 PM
Yours is also one American's perspective - actually, a lot of Americans, I think.
Well the number of Americans supporting an end of hostilities will decrease today. It's time to help the Israeli’s destroy the terrorist and all who stand with them. Please wave those flags of yellow, they are great targets.
I just wish that some crazy Christians, Israeli or Catholic would go blown up Mecca or something very Muslim so that you haters can feel the same thing. But they won’t, they have the restraint to keep it to the terrorists and the civilians that hide or support them. Once a civilian takes the side of a terrorist they deserve the same fate.
America will never stop supporting Israel, and neither will I.
Call me dumb, hate filled or an ass. But when your people target an airliner of women, children and men that have nothing to do with your silly war or religious craziness. Well that sets a great stage for normal people like me to grow to truly hate another religion.
No one will answer a simple question, does it not say in the Koran to kill the infidel or none believer? Well since none of you will answer I will go buy a copy of the Koran and do some reading. Then I’ll know first hand what garbage it teaches and why it produces such hate.
And Israel gets a free ride for its massacre of civilians as long as they say, "It was a Hezbollah target"? Wake up! Israel posts its IDF around hospitals and schools and such, just for the propaganda it generates when those areas are attacked ("They bombed a hospital, those evil, evil terrorists"). The continuing Lebanese massacre by Israel is as much a propaganda war as it is anything else.
Israel is a blatantly terrorist state by any definition of the word (it takes very little research to find this), and their terroristic activities are fully funded and supported by the US. That means the US is in the same boat with Iran and its support of Hezbollah. Now what?
Here's an honest question: if the US cut all aid to Israel today and forever (which it should), how would the region react?
Good for you mister sam. OK - you're dumb. AND hate filled. AND an ass. Now, pull the flush lever and go be with Jesus.
i will never forget these sounds. they are in my bones and in my mind forever. this nightmare has to stop. i dont have words anymore. i m heartbroken. totally.
If there are Muslims planning such callous acts, they are backstabbers, Muslims agreeing to these are backstabbers and those Muslims not doing anything are also backstabbers. period
If? I'm dumb, I'm an ass??? Everyone in the world knows that the current terrorist is the world causing the most damage and destruction are Islamic extremists. There is no if and you know it as well as I do.
Okay to HCB, nothing you can say about Jesus would make me mad enough to kill unlike your people. What happened when the Danish people published some cartoons of Mohammed? The Islamic people freaked out and cried for the death of so many people and burned flags and such. Why, are the Muslims that scared of cartoon that it will ruin their lives by joking around? How many times Does God or Jesus get blasted, answer allot. SO you’re fanatics have taken people like me that didn’t care before and made us haters. Trust me there are more and more of us in the States. Almost everyone I talk to is against the Muslims now and don’t like them. We look at them now in every day life and contemplate where they stand in life and would they strap a bomb and kill me because I love Jesus not Mohammed.
I cannot imagine having to live with bombs falling around you day and night. My mother lived through WWII as a small child and has often told me stories about what life was like then. The bombs, the running for shelter, looking in garbage cans for food. War is a horrible thing....and truly there is never a winner..because both sides are losing something.
Whatever God we pray to, we should all pray for peace.
Sam, you believe there are "more and more" people who think like you, but that's only because you haven't talked to anyone outside of your trailer park. If you blame all Muslims for terrorist acts, then you blame all Christians for Timothy McVeigh (a Christian) blowing up the Oklahoma City building....or are you a hypocrite? Does your rule only apply to Muslims?
You are vastly out of touch with history, Sam. Turn off Faux News and do some research.
Sam, sam, sam ... people like you are SO easy. Look back at your earlier rant. You said, " Call me dumb, hate filled or an ass," so I did. I had a lot of other adjectives - like fool, ignoranus, uneducated, hypocrite - but I didn't want to confuse you with difficult concepts so I simply conceded to what you said about yourself. Have you bought your Koran yet? Did you find something in it like "an eye for an eye?" Or, "if you don't obey me I am going to send you to a place full of boiling oil, burning rocks and evil little imps with pitchforks. For all of eternity. But, remember, I love you." I think you've maybe been reading the bible with Jimmy Swaggart a little too much.
Like I said - pull the flush lever and let's see if YOUR God says come on it.
Oh - you said something about my "people" like they are not created equal to your "people." At least not in the eyes of the Jesus you say you love. Sorry to disappoint you but, I'm Episcopalian. From the south. United States. Red Neck. Oh - and the Jesus I know, loves Mohammed. And all the other people you hate so much. Be careful, sammy - your God - the one who hates so much - is gonna getcha. And if all your dreams come true, there's gonna be a lot more muslims up there than bigoted "christians." You might want to hedge your bet a little. Although, foolish assholes are welcome as well - you know, "God so loved the world ...."
Lets do the Math, two nut jobs in how many years. Now over to the Muslims, I can't even count the number of terror attacks. As for old Tim, well he already had to deal with God first hand. We tried him and sent him down.
oh - and Sam? Bush is a very competent fool. But a complete disaster othrwise. You and he would enjoy each other, I think. Although, he might also get tired of hearing you rant.
I have a quick question. I've been reading this blog for weeks now, and I keep wanting to input on the discussions. My question pertains to whether or not people who support Israel (sometimes) are even allowed a voice. While American propaghanda may be a horrible mask put on an even more horrible scenario, going to the extreme on either side should be cautioned, should it not? Anyone in here who is not 100% anti-israel doesn't even get the chance to mutter a word before the backlash hits. Now how are you honestly going to open up true discussion? Very shortly here, our generation will be in power around the globe. Don't make the mistake of pegging all americans as pro-israeli under all circumstances, because there are those of us who see past the bullshit fed to people through CNN. Is a viewpoint even welcome here that isn't your own? Just curious.
Oh trust me; I have no anger against any other religion. Only one religion that spreads death and teaches hate like Mohammed. Can you tell me that the Koran or Mohammed does not in any way say that the Infidels or non believers must die? Answer that my theological friend. Terrorist are created equal but once they embrace their religion in ways that spread death and destruction then at that point were not equal. But to many Muslims are crazy whack jobs for me to give them the benefit of equality. Prove you love peace Islam and stop teaching your children such hate and we’ll rethink our stance on Islam.
Um I’m not perfect, no one is. That is why Jesus died for my sins and the sins of all others.
anon, they do allow some freedom but don't go at it like I have. Keep an open mind and they will answer the simple questions and skirt the ones that are to hard for them to handel. They have pissed me off as I have done the same to them.
This is a "death to all Israeli's" site just masked as a peace love site.
Sam? You're still here? Now you are proving to everyone just how stupid you really are. I cannot believe you are actually making points. What are you basing your points on? Did you get to your reading like i told you last night? The sooner you start reading, the better you will sound to the rest of us.
My heart hurts, I am paralyzed, I could not imagine what it is like to live with the jets. I live in a tourist area surrounded by military bases. The sound of the jets are terrible, I cannot imagine being on the receiving end of the bombs. I hear the bombs from far away in America as they practice, miles away they cause my home to shake. We can call and complain for them to stop. I just hate it to see what the jets and Apaches do to others. I am absoulutely sickened as an American today. America land of the free! PLEASE! This American is disgusted with the absolute ignorance the majority in my country believe. Reviewing these post, the hatred and ignorance revealed. WAKE UP MY FELLOW AMERICANS AS YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT THE MUSLIM BEING TERRORIST, LOOK IN THE MIRROR!!!!!!!!!!! George Bush attends Church and "protects" life by vetoing the stem cell research. This is YOUR Christian! He is a Christian who sends the country to war. To WAR, to KILL. That is what war is - killing innocence. Look what our military does, they are taught to KILL. I am supposed to be patriotic and support our guys in military. Well I AM PATRIOTIC, I DO NOT SUPPORT WAR. WHAT IS WAR GOOD FOR? WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR? LOOK AT THE BOMBS FROM THE JETS THAT I BOUGHT WITH MY HARD EARNED TAX DOLLARS. I AM ASHAMED, I DO NOT SUPPORT IT AND AM SICK OF SUPPORTING IT AND AM SICK OF BEING AFRAID OF BEING TAGGED ANTISEMETIC IF I TALK ABOUT ISRAEL. THEIR ALLIANCE HAS RUINED MY COUNTRY AND I AM NOT PROUD OF THAT. WAKE UP AMERICANS. LOOK IN THE MIRROR FOR ONCE. ANYONE WHO TALKS ABOUT ISLAMIC TERRORISM, WHO TELLS THE LEBANESE TO GET RID OF THE RESISTANCE MOVEMENT HEZBOLLAH. ASK YOURSELF DO YOU SUPPORT THE MILITARY GUYS WHO KILLED AN IRAQI FAMILY THEN RAPED THE DAUGHTER THEN KILLED HER!!!!!!!!! WAKE UP PEOPLE WAKE UP. YOU THINK THIS IS THE ONLY INCIDENT! YOU THINK YOU CAN SIT IN AMERICA, WORK GO ABOUT YOUR BUISNESS AND FUN AND WATCH A FEW SOUNDBITES THEN SPEW YOUR ADVICE TO LEBANON, THE PALESTINIANS AND THE MUSLIMS. THE ZIONIST ISRAELIS, AIPAC AND THE EVANGELICAL LOBBYIST HAVE RUINED AMERICA. THEY HAVE HIJACKED OUR CONGRESS USED OUR HARD EARNED MONEY TO HUMILIATE THE ARAB WORLD. NOT THE GOOD SECT OF JUDAISM WHO DO NOT AGREE WITH THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT. EVERYTIME YOU WANT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT A MUSLIM TERRORIST, TURN TO SOME OF THE GREAT INFO OFFERED ON THE BLOGS TO SEE THE PICTURES THE REST OF THE WORLD SEES. DO RESEARCH FIND OUT WHAT REALLY HAPPENS TO BREED ALL THE HATE TOWARD AMERICA AND ISRAEL AND TONY BLAIRS BRITIAN. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND MY FELLOW AMERICANS. I DID NOT KNOW UNTIL I STARTED OPENING MY EYES. DO WE CALL A FAMILY AT 1AM IN THE MORNING TELLING THEM TO LEAVE THEIR HOUSE BEFORE WE BOMB IT IN ONE HOUR? DO WE BOMB A HOME BECAUSE THE SON IS A RAPIST OR MURDERER??? DO WE? WELL ISRAEL DID IT THIS WEEK TO 6 FAMILIES IN GAZA. YOUR TAX DOLLARS, YOUR JETS, YOUR MORALS DOWN THE DRAIN. YOU DO NOT SEE IT? YOU DO NOT SEE THE PRISON THE GAZANS LIVE IN? DO NOT BLAME THEM THEY CANNOT HAVE FREE TRADE BECAUSE ISRAEL WILL NOT LET THEM. YES I TYPE IN BOLD BECAUSE I AM FRUSTRATED WITH THE PURE ARROGANCE AND IGNORANCE OF THE MAJORITY OF FELLOW AMERICANS THAT BELIEVE THE RHETORIC FED TO US. LOOK AT THE ZIONIST PLAYING UP THE EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS THEN LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK AT THEIR IGNORANCE. I CAN SAY IT, I WAS RAISED SOUTHERN BAPTIST - I GOT MY HEAD OUT OF THE SAND. WAKE UP WAKE UP. THE TIME IS NOW, LOOK IN YOUR MIRROR. START CHANGING THE WORLD IN YOUR OWN BACK YARD.
PS ~ IT LOOKS LIKE THIS BLOG HAS ALSO BEEN HIJACKED BY THE NEW ISRAELI SOFTWARE THAT SCANS THE INTERNET FOR ANYONE TALKING NEGATIVE ABOUT ISRAEL. THIS WAY THEY CAN COUNTERACT THE NEGATIVITY! TIME TO SHAKE UP AND WAKE UP FOR ANYONE WHO DOES NOT GET IT!!!
It just bugs me that everyone seems to only be content when their viewpoint is hailed. I have many ideas for many different subjects, and I'm positive they are bound to be criticized by somebody, but that isn't the problem. The problem comes when people point fingers and say stuff like "stupid americans" and these bland attempts at self-justification, when in all reality, it's possible we're on the same page with only the details needing to be pounded out. Quit making claims that we're all ignorant zionists, or that we don't care because we're american. My government doesn't speak for me. I can't make them stop supporting wars, or warring nations, or even voice opposition to the lack of support for the other end of the conflict. I want to be involved in communication with every side, for this is the only way to make progress.
Sam apparently isn't aware of the Crusades and what religion was behind those atrocities in the name of that "religion of peace".
Is anyone else capable of understanding that this being a mid-term election year in the US is going to influence international events, such as today's "terror" at Heathrow Airport, as well as Israel's mini-holocaust in Lebanon?
The closer we get to the November elections in the US, the more "terror" we're going to see....this is so gullible people like Sam will be afraid of "the terrorists" and vote to keep these failed Republicants in office....much like the charade of 9-11.
Creating a state for a religion, in this case Israel created for Judaism, right in the middle of Arab country, is like putting a Ku Klux Klan member in the low-income area of Philadelphia and expecting things to be rosy....how ridiculous.
Sam, I am Lebanese and a Christian and believe in Jesus, but I think you are not very well informed, or at the very least are unaware of the key facts in this conflict. Please do some critically reading--only a suggestion of course.
Oh Lola, If you or anyone else on this post think I'm dumb that’s okay with me. I'm one of a few that speaks his mind in the open. So many people hate the Muslims but they're better than me because they keep quite. Oh I am going to do some reading, I will get the Koran. I found a Anti Israeli protest this coming weekend in LA. I will take the Koran and some flags of terrorist counties and people for some warm. As in it's time for an American to be filmed burning your flags. Then comes the Koran, once I find the passage that states to "kill the unbelievers" I will toast it too in front of all of the pro terrorist supporters. I can’t wait to see the expression on their faces when it burns. Everyone in my office loves the idea, who new! It’s time to really piss off some Islamic freaks.
As upsetting as it may be to some for me to say I am [not practicing] Christian too. My heart goes out to you, be safe and the sides of ritiousnees will prevail.
I am reading and have for years. I’ve read about all of the struggles of the Israelis against the hate filled countries surrounding them, trying to wipe them out. I always take intelligent suggestions, and hope to understand the side of the Christian believer better. As for the Muslims they had it coming.
Responding to Mr. Sam:
Do you read in the Bible to kill, did Jesus teach killing? Well our great President Bush is a good Christian, he goes to church and protects life vetoing the stem cell research. He is a good Christian who sends our country to war and supports Israels right to defend "herself". Our military is full of good church going Christians, they pray before going into combat to kill the enemy. Our Evangelicals are good Christians, they are so supportive of poor Isreals right to survive, they support and fund Isreals war to kill their neighbors. OK, So if America has a right to revenge for 9/11 and Israel has a right to survive and defend "herself" ~~~do the Palestinians who were kicked out of their homes and shot at in 1948 by the Irgan and Stern Gangs not have a right to self defense. Do the defenseless Shiite Muslim in south Lebanon 1982 whose families were invaded, killed and kidnapped at the will of Isreal have right to the same self defense. Do the victims of Sabra and Shatilla have a right to self defense? Do the defenseless Palestinians who have been kicked, spit on, humiliated, shot at, denied crossing military checkpoints trying to give birth, rubber bullets, etc. etc., do they not have a right to self defense?
Ponder that.
Is anyone else capable of understanding that this being a mid-term election year in the US is going to influence international events, such as today's "terror" at Heathrow Airport, as well as Israel's mini-holocaust in Lebanon?
Are you serious, a mini-holocaust…… Oh brother, they would have to wipe every Lebanese off the planet to get close so don’t kid yourself retard.
Creating a state for a religion, in this case Israel created for Judaism, right in the middle of Arab country, is like putting a Ku Klux Klan member in the low-income area of Philadelphia and expecting things to be rosy....how ridiculous. Um how long were the Israeli’s there before it became a terrorist play ground and training center? It is Israel now, it will never be owned by the terrorist again.
I see what you mean Sam, this is a pro terrorist site.
Sammy - that's the trouble. You open your mind too much. All your brains have leaked out.
That's the second time you said you're going to get the Koran. Better would be to read the bible first - you obviously have not.
It's not a matter of "think" you're dumb - you demonstrate your idiocy and inanity (look it up) with every rant. I give you the time of day in response only so people here know that you are the exception - the scum at the shallow end of the gene pool in the US. You are an embarrassment because people notice you and may begin thinking of Americans like you do about them. I worry they will think that all Americans are like you. I want people here to understand how tiny the rock is under which you squirm. I want people here to know that the great majority of Americans are fair minded and hate what is happening to Lebanon. Your ranting fouls the air the same as a very stinky fart in an elevator and I want to be sure that people know it is from YOU alone - not the great majority of Americans.
You've demonstrated your inability to think or to present a rational argument in support of your bigoted view. I don't think many Israelis agree with you either - yours is the hatred born of complete ignorance and the failure of your parents and teachers to notice early enough to do something about it. Why you want to heap your hate on the top of the misery being suffered because of people like you, is beyond me. It can only be explained as being insane. No matter - I sincerely hope people here have heard enough of you and will simply ignore you from here on.
I told you Brian, I've invited everyone form the office and a few others to see how they preach crap and see if they can turn more Americans against the State of Israel. I say no, I'm making it my goal in life to promote the Jews and their right to kill to survive on there terms. This site is now going to be open and were looking for more of them to correct the lies and hate being spread. Go Bush, Go Blair
God Bless America and it's Stand. Bush for many more years..... Thats the best part, he's in.
A guy walks into a bar and sees a gorgeous woman nursing a drink.
Walking up behind her, he says, "Hi, there, good lookin'! How's it going?"
Having already downed a few power drinks, she turns around, faces him,
looks him straight in the eye and says, "Listen! I screw anybody, any
time, anywhere, your place, my place, on the ground, standing up, sitting down, naked, with clothes
on, dirty, clean ... It just doesn't matter to me. I've been doing it ever
since I got out of college ... I just flat-ass love it!"
Eyes now wide with interest, he responds, "No kidding! I'm a Lebanese, too!
What Mosque are you with?"
Sam Sam Sam... you may think i am attacking you here. Well, i am! Because your ignorance is just too funny. I sit here a read what you write and i just laugh. You have not in any of your comments mentioned one intelegent thing. You're just blabbing.
Do you forget that there are many Muslim Americans in the states? And most of them are African Americans. I dare you to do what you want to do with the Koran infront of these American Muslims. They will tear you to pieces. I am sure you are as racist as you are stupid.
I'm not a racist thanks. I get along great with most anyone that matters. I hate scum regardles of what color or race they are. Bring it on, it will burn and if they touch me then it just proves my point. Violence is only okay for the Muslim, but If I attack any other person race, color or whatever I'm a racist becasue I'm white.
See if any person attacks me then the police in a civilized culture take care of it. You are a Muslim idiot too. Be there, I wanted to pee on it but I would get a ticket for peeing in public. I do follow the rules. Freedom of speach is protected in America, only in your world is it wrong to go against the norm. To me it's worthless paper just as tp paper.
BRAVO SAM
Julie, first, thank you for referring me to that site. I read some of the posts and then looked at the pictures. My God .....
Don't waste your time with the jerks. They have one purpose - to see if they can get a rise from you. They have nothing of any value to contribute to anyone or anything so they try to show how tough they are by talking tough. They are "chicken hawks." A lot of talk but put them in the face of danger and watch them squat, cry and wet their pants.
You have read and thought and formed a rational conclusion. Don't let the dopes worry you. They hope Bush is in "for many more years" but don't realize the idiot in chief has said himself he doesn't know what to do or what will happen but will leave it to "a future president" since he's outta here in another year. Thank God. Meanwhile, he and his buddies sit and masturbate in a circle while they watch Lebanon burn. It is unimaginably awful.
If you and some others like you - Carmel comes to mind - keep the faith that there are good people in Israel, Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Iraq and Iran, some good may eventually come from this. But if good people give into the base and bigoted hatred the idiots like sammy spout, there will always be "terrorism" - by and against Sammy and his cronies.
I know you love him, God - but maybe a lightning bolt set to "stun?" Please?
Sam, speak a little bit about the history of the land now known as Israel, will you? I'm very curious to know just how much you know and understand about the Middle East.
I'm talking about pre-1948, Sam.....tell me a little about it.
All of my studies were post 1947 until the question popped up to me who was there first? I asked it because of the comparison between the America Indian and the way they were treated. I hardly ever hear one of them complain and cry like the people of the Middle East and we were ten times more horrible to them. Oh my god we took everything and made them live in little reservations. I am ashamed of what happened but it is getting better for them and it’s not a reason for them to destroy or kill anyone. They were a proud race, very intelligent and inspiring too. Why can’t the Muslims try to be like that.
I’m reading into the very early days, did you know beer was invented in Iran?
Hundreds of years of fighting, six and a half wars, billions of dollars gone with the wind, tens of thousands of victims, not including the boy who laid down next to me on the rocky beach of lake Karon in 1982 and we both watched his guts spilling out. The helicopter took him and until this day I do not know whether he is dead or survived. All this, and one cannot figure it out.
And its not only what happened but all that did not happen – hospitals that were never built, universities that were never opened, roads that were never paved, the three years that were taken from millions of teenagers for the sake of the army. And despite all the above, we still do not have the beginning of a clue to the mystery of where it all started:
Why do they hate us so much?
I am not talking about the Palestinians this time. Their dispute with us is intimate, focused, and it has a direct effect on their lives. Without getting into the "which side is right" question, it is obvious that they have very personal reasons not to stand our presence here. We all know that eventually this is how it will be solved: in a personal way, between them and us, with blood sweat and tears that will stain the pages of the agreement. Until then, it is a war that could at least be understood, even if no sane person is willing to accept the means that are used to run it by.
It is the others. Those I cannot understand. Why does Hassan Nasralla, along with tens of thousands of his supporters, dedicate his life, his visible talents, his country's destiny, to fight a country he has never even seen, people he has never really met and an army that he has no reason to fight?
Why do children in Iran, who can not even locate Israel on the map (especially because it is so small), burn its flag in the city center and offer to commit suicide for its elimination? Why do Egyptian and Jordanian intellectuals agitate the innocent and helpless against the peace agreements, even though they know that their failure will push their countries 20 years back? Why are the Syrians willing to stay a pathetic and depressed third world country, for the dubious right to finance terror organizations that will eventually threaten their own country's existence? Why do they hate us so much in Saudi-Arabia? In Iraq? In Sudan? What have we done to them? How are we even relevant to their lives? What do they know about us? Why do they hate us so much in Afghanistan? They don't have anything to eat there, where do they get the energy to hate?
This question has so many answers and yet it is a mystery. It is true that it is a religious matter but even religious people make their choices. The Koran (along with the Shariaa – the Muslim parallel to the Jewish Halacha) consists of thousands of laws, why is it that we occupy them so much?
There are so many countries who gave them much better reasons to be angry. We did not start the crusades, we did not rule them during the colonial period, we never tried to convert them. The Mongolians, the Seljuk, the Greeks, the Romans, the Crusaders, the Ottomans, the British, they all conquered, ruined and plundered the whole region. We did not even try, so how come we are the enemy?
And if it is identification with their Palestinians brothers then where are the Saudi Arabian tractors building up the territories that were evacuated? What happened to the Indonesian delegation building a school in Gaza strip? Where are the Kuwaiti doctors with their modern surgical equipment? There are so many ways to love your brothers, why do they all prefer to help their brothers with hating?
Is it something that we do? Fifteen hundreds years of anti-Semitism taught us – in the most painful way possible – that there is something about us that irritates the world. So, we did the thing everyone wanted: we got up and left. We have established our own tiny little country, where we can irritate ourselves without interrupting others. We didn't even ask a lot for it. Israel is spread on a smaller territory than 1% of the territory of Saudi-Arabia, with no oil, no minerals, without settling on another existing state's territory. Most of the cities that were bombed this week were not plundered from anyone. Nahariya, Afula, and Karmiel did not even exist until we established them. The other katyusas landed on territories over which no one ever questioned our right with regards to them. In Haifa there were Jews already in the 3rd century BC and Tiberias was the place where the last Sanhedrin sat, so no one can claim we plundered them from anyone.
However, the hatred continues. As if no other destiny is possible. Active hatred, poisoned, unstoppable. Last Saturday the president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, called again "to act for the vanishing of Israel"' as if we were bacteria. We got used to it so much that we don't even ask why.
Israel does not hope and never did for Iran to vanish. As long as they wanted, we had diplomatic relations with them. We do not have a common border with them or even any bad memories. And still, they are willing to confront the whole western world, to risk a commercial boycott, to hurt their own quality of life, to crush what's left of their economy and all that for the right to passionately hate us.
I am trying to remember and cannot: have we ever done something to them? When? How? Why did he say in his speech that "Israel is the main problem of the Muslim world"? more than a billion people living in the Muslim world, most of them in horrible conditions. They suffer from hunger, poverty, ignorance, bloodshed that spreads from Kashmir to Kurdistan, from dying Darfur to injured Bangladesh. How come we are the main problem? How exactly are we in their way?
I refuse to accept the argument that claims "that is just the way they are". They said it about us so many times that we have learned to accept this expression. There must be another reason, some dark secret that because of it, the citizens of South Lebanon allow to rouse the quiet border, to kidnap the soldiers of an army that has already retreated from their territory, to turn their country into a wasteland exactly at the time they finally escaped twenty years of disasters.
We got used to telling ourselves worn expressions – "it's the Iranian influence", or "Syria is stirring behind the scenes" – but it is just too easy explanation. Because what about them? What about their thoughts? What about their hopes, loves, ambitions and their dreams? What about their children? When they send their children to die, does it seem enough for them to say that it was all worth while just because they hate us so much?
Ok, I lied...I can't stay out of it.
American Indians Or Native Americans, if you will, did have a reason to kill people and they did kill people..remember Custer? They did what anyone would do if their home was invaded..they fought back.
And seeing as how I am part Cherokee and my husband works for a Native American Tribe, I can say first hand that most Native Americans are very bitter still to this date and have quite a bit of dislike and mistrust of "white men". Can't say I blame them.
Hello-I think everyone should not respond to Sam's comments, because apparently he just wants attention, and its only fueling his babbling...which is non-sensical, incorrect and useless information.
Vive le Liban (and all the people in it).
phishster said...
sam sam sam sam sam sam - what can i say? you're so ignornant aren't you!!
I got to read what you wrote before it was blocked. Is that the best you can come up with? Pitty, some here come back with better ones, you're well enough said.
Anon 9:46, you are correct. I apologize for my part in this senseless conversation.
He knows nothing, Steve.
Israel is nothing more than a puppet of the US, an extension of the US....used to pursue American interests in the region. The rest of the world knows that already.
You need a quick lesson about PNAC, who they are, and what they say. Understand PNAC and you'll understand exactly why the US is wasting its young soldiers in the oil-rich Middle East while letting nuclear (and oil-less) North Korea run free.
Speaking of nuclear, maybe the hatred has something to do with Israel having the world's sixth-largest nuclear arsenal while the rest of the region is forbidden from anything nuclear. Hypocrisy never breeds contentment.
I didn't kill a soul. My family wasn't even in the states when it happened. If I were an American Native Indian I would have been a bit twisted. The Lebs are only being invaded beacsue of the two taken. So don't cry to me about the Lebs and how innocent they are.
As for the Indians in this country I'm proud that they are so very strong and are doing what any proud race will do when faced sucha sad situation. They are growing stronger politically and in other ways. I'm bitter but I live with it. So do the Indians, they learned that violence and hate will get them no where.
Fine ignore me, but you all can get rid of me very easy. Just answer the question I keep asking.
What an ass you are, but mope I'm staying untill someone answers the qustion. Who taught you english?
That wasn't question either.
Does it say in the Koran to kill the infedel? That will save me buying and burning it when I'm done.
Calling the po po? I'm not in Iran, freedom of speach Phil.
Bill of Rights, so anything else oh smart Phil?
Why do you think Israel is widening its offensive in Leb when a peace plan is looming around the corner? now, they are in Chrisitian areas and are attacking the north of Beirut too. Its like they've cut off Beirut from all sides and cut the country in half...
Here's a question - perhaps more rhetorical than anything else..
What if Hezbollah disarmed tomorrow? They stopped firing rockets and gave up all weapons. Would Israel stop and pull their troops back? Or would they continue marching until they had foot soldiers in downtown Beruit?
They would keep on going. I wonder how many Israeli citizens still agree with what their government is doing.
Phishster, please simply ignore the smelly little squirt of pee. Please.
wow...the commenting on this site has degenerated significantly in the last few weeks. the hate-speech and personal attacks are completely deplorable and reduce those participating to driveling babies.
can we please get back to civilized discussion? it's far more stimulating than reading the juvenile back-and-forth that now dominates what used to be an intelligent exploration of viewpoints.
I can't burn in hell, I accepted Jesus so I'll be in Heaven thanks.
I sent an e-mial with some pics from 6 months ago asking him to post one or two and state his anger at the people making me think the way I do. We'll see if this site is open or if it is all lies.
For the rest of you, I'm just getting started since you all live in glass houses I will throw rocks.
All I am seeing is a bunch of cry baby's.
I'm sure nothing is happening so I'll e-mail them to anyone willing to face the truth about these liars adn evil doers.
Go Israel, keep up the good work.
Semper Fi
Though I really can't stand whats Sam is saying here about muslims, I have to post this.
Maybe this should have been the next post right after Galloway thing... just to show that there are always extemes on both sides.
For me.. all religious fanatics are crazy. it's the worse excuse for anything. but from some reason it keeps changing our world killing people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPglHZQf-0
p.s - hold on.. it will end soon.
The truth is put into our faces every day. If your fanatics are willing to spread so much hate and death beacsue of cartoons then there will never be peace and you know it as well as I do so I'm taking sides alreight.
How about we try peace this time,
your long post was full of nonsense. So if you did not take the land from anyone, then where did the millions of Palestinian refugees come from? Don't flatter yourself, before the Jews came the whole area now referred to as Israel was populated by Palsetinians. The reason those villages you talk of were made by Israelis is because they destroyed all of the old villages and put up their own. The people were not barbaric or anything before you came. I can't believe that you actually ask why they hate you when you willingly live on their land and kill their people.
You ask "what do they know about us." Well, what do you know about them? Just as Europe will not sit around if one of their countries is wronged. The Middle East will not sit around as the Palsetinians are wronged. Israel is the only nation who does not allow any other person of another religion to gain citizenship. They take the land and then do not allow Palestinians to become citizens of it. You claim that you took the land in the first place because you were a people without a nation. Since when does a religion need a nation of its own? Now you have left the Palsetinians wihtout a nation. You are just as bad as the people who have wronged you in the past. You always claim the victim, I think you have gotten too used to that.
Muslims are not anti-Jewish, they are anti-Israel. So are most of the other religions in the MIddle East, which by the way, there are a lot of other religions besides Islam. BUt everyone forgets to mention that. They forget to mention that some of the suicide bombers are Christian, or that the people wronged in Palestine are not only Muslim but Christian also.
Sam why don't you also hate your own religion. Timothy McVeigh was not the only Christian 'terrrorist'. What is a terrorist anyway? Killing is killing. A terrorist or not a terrorist, they are all murderers. In the Koran, it does not say to kill the infidel. You obvioulsy don't know that Muslims also belive in Jesus, but Christianity and Judaism do not believe in Muhammed. They refuse to reognize any other religion that has come after theirs. By refusing to recognize the other religions as legitimate, then you put everyone in a bad situation. It is not in the Koran that all of the Muslims enemies will be cut down and ruined. However, it is in the Torah and the Bible. Anyone who presents a 'threat' to the Jews will be destroyed. Put together, all of the 'terrorist' acts by Muslims have not even killed half as many people as the Muslims killed by America and Israel.
During the Holocaust, didn't the Jews have secret groups to carry out secret attacks agains the Nazis. I think in the Nazis eyes, they would be considered terrorists. But to the Jews, they were protecting themselves becasue their government couldn't. Why do Israelis put their suffering above others? The Muslims have been targeted many times throughout history, but no one mentions it in the Western World because they were the ones targeting them.
Don't even dare ask why they hate you when you refuse to recognize their existence and their right to a life.
RS - I've been thinking about your question from earlier today. Yes. I think it's a good idea. For obvious reasons, I think.
Lets go back a thosand years and more.
I'm not nor will diis the Jews only the Muslims
phishster said...
I will answer your question sam,
before 1948 there was a nation-state called Palestine however due to the diaspora that occured post WW II the jews decided that Palestine was their holy land, since it is a religious nation for Muslims, Christians and Jews. Therefore, the Jews decided to take over Palestine and named it Israel..the Palestinains were forced out of their country. The reason
Hate me it's okay. Until your people gian a better understanding of how to make it all work without killing.
sam said...
I can't burn in hell, I accepted Jesus so I'll be in Heaven thanks.
I sent an e-mial with some pics from 6 months ago asking him to post one or two and state his anger at the people making me think the way I do. We'll see if this site is open or if it is all lies.
For the rest of you, I'm just getting started since you all live in glass houses I will throw rocks.
All I am seeing is a bunch of cry baby's.
10:51 PM
Newpot Beach Ca
I am so not a racist but your view is noted.
phishster - when you flush, do you miss what's gone? Do you even think about it? Flush him. It's exactly the same thing. Continuing the argument is distracting - please stop. You can get nowhere with a fool who simply babbles. So why continue?
Answer the question about the Koran you pussies!
So what do you guys talk about when someone like me isn’t around?
Oh our poor people….
Those mean Jews….
Glory to Allah and all his little followers…..
Jihad is the only way….
To hard to face a person who isn’t afraid to tell you that you’re all crazy and just as dumb. Your silence about your Koran says all I need to know, you are all raised as terrorist but some learn to control it better than others. The Koran is a terrorist hand guide, that’s all.
What a joke Islam is, what a joke your pussies are too.
Of course you know each other..... you went to the same bomb making school
Ha Ha Ha, to funny
I repeat, phishter--dont engage in conversation with Sam because he is wasting our time and energy. He just wants attention and doesnt know what he is talking about. poor guy.
I have said so many times tell me if the Koran states to kill the none believers and I will leave your little world. But no one wants to admitt that their beliefs are so stupid as to say that. See we went throught that a few hundred years ago but since the Middle East is starting to become educated as we did hundredss of years ago they are going to make the same mistakes we did.
It was wrong to try to kill all of the Muslims but maybe they knew what was coming down the road.
GET A LIFE SAM!
They are on sale now. You can buy 2 for the price of one. Ofcourse they do not include a brain. You can buy brains at your local Kmart, i think. Ask around coz i am sure you don't read.
to, 'how about we try peace this time' You asked why are we hated and by the second paragraph said. 'I am not talking about the Palestinians this time, their dispute with us is intimate and focused'. Sounds oddly loving.
About as intimate as any global satalite t.v or blogasphere I am afraid. So; ..... no hope of trying peace with that attitude I am afraid.
And Sam! I promised myself I would not mention you but you are soooo good at what you do!
I thoroughly agree with you that books are only bits of paper however I am particularly fond of Alice in Wonderland I would cry buckets if you decided to do a 'farenheit 451' in a middle school class. I am rather fond of Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy as well, both books with something to say. Besides how would you read all these crusty old history books to help yourself learn if I decided I didn't much care for your books?
Finally I am not in the least bit surprised your office encourages you to burn the Koran amongst a Muslim crowd. Would this be an open office? Do you express your worldly opinions all day long! My heart goes out to your co-workers.
Peace to all. Especially those caught in wars.
To bad we can't give the Israeli's the bomb we made in 01. The largest none nuc. It can wipe out a square mile of bomb makers. Bunkers and all. That sound would be awesome. Not one scream, only death.
I don't think so, Phishster. But, from what you've said so far, I think we agree on a lot. Which is what I think this site could promote. That's why I so dislike the kind of exchange you were being trapped into - there are people from all over the world who are reasonable, fair minded and compassionate. What would happen if a large group of them suddenly announced they are going to take a train of helicopters into Beirut with food and drink and music? What would happen if jews and muslims and christians and hindis and ... if many people of different faiths and beliefs got together with no agenda but to meet and enjoy each other? How could the madness not stop? Maybe not instantly but, at least, eventually.
We can't do that right now. But we can meet here and talk and exchange ideas. Even if they have no practical value. We can show each other we are NOT the bigoted hate mongers who promote the kind of horror in Lebanon and Israel. We can show we want to do what we can to promote understanding and benevolence. That we want discourse and to celebrate our differences as human beings who can appreciate each other. It's got nothing to do with religion but everything to do with religion. Nothing to do with politics but everything to do with politics. So long as we can exchange ideas instead of bullets. So long as we can empathize and feel good with each other we'll prevail. But we get nowhere with ugly, hate filled expletives filling the air.
We can't be together physically but we can spiritually. We may not be able to accomplish anything of practical value right now but we might be able to in the near future. We can be assured in any event that we can enjoy each other for however long we have to do so. And we should not avoid that enjoyment by being hateful and ugly - it's bad enough that bombs and rockets fall on each side of the border without warning. It's bad enough there are people out there this moment seeking other people to kill for no reason other than blind hate and fear. It's bad enough mothers and grandmothers are crying and sons and grandsons and daughters and wives and schoolgirls are terrified today and about tomorrow.
Can we not at least be human in our exchanges? I don't mean even that love is required. Simple respect. Or at least tempering of opinion.
You are a good person, phishster. I don't know how I know that but I do. And so are so many others who have poured their hearts out here. It's a wonderful thing we have - an opportunity to be in touch with each other from around the world. We should not waste or abuse that opportunity.
Howard
11.10pm
Thank you so much for saying everything I wanted to say, concisely. This "why do they hate us poor little Israelis so much, they must be dreadful anti-semites" rant is everywhere and is soooooo tiresome. The other one that really gets on my tits, is the Israeli myth about the Palestinians: "we offered them such a good deal, their own state, in 2001, they rejected it and chose war; now we have no-one to negotiate with since they have elected terrorists". Both these myths are believed wholesale by most Americans, who never look beyond their Israeli-lobby sensitive news media.
hcb and others: My sympathies with you for both the explosions on the ground and all this hatefilled nonsense on your blog
Oh ya to know my experience with Leb's, I worked for three and they were the most back stabbing son of bitches I have ever known. I left that part out, one of them is in Leb now. I hope is on the receiving end of a jet fighter.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
hcb, you said everything I was thinking but in terms more eloquent than I ever could have used.
This post it to the owners of this site. Will you show your frustration with your extremist Muslims and post a blog about the pic's I e-mailed you?
Silence only shows that your one of them too.
SAM, the koran does not say to kill non-believers u fuck! you FUCKING FUCKER
You are one of the fanatics aren't you. You wish you could slice my head right off. You wish harm to me and my family don't you, you sick pig of a human.
Oh Good God, Barbie is back. Credit Card must be, maxed out.
it is good to know that people in USA are payed to undermine every sensful, emotional, friendly, information exchange etc. communication ... they are rather much at home in California and dictators like mr. Horowitz are their idols
never mind - shooting bad words is the sport they have trained due to many illegal drugs consumed and thus failed students .. a PC is the only world they can handle beside all the waisted relationship
symptomatic!
What are you talking about... Cali is filled with the bleeding heart people who are in complete support of Leb. Get your facts straight. Our state was going broke becasue all of the Democrates and bleeding hearts. A few small area's could care less or hate you people like me.
You are so wrong.
Well, the US and the French have agreed on the key points of a plan to stop the war. Of course while this is going on, the Israelis strike at the heart of Beirut. Could the Israelis be any more callous? They've already lost this war in the eyes of most of the world... give it up already.
They have only lost in the blind eyes of the terrorits and their followers. As for the rest of the world, well were all laughing inside and how easy it is to roll over a country. The Army in your country isn't even watnted to help stop the fighting. You'll all start a civil war and the the terroroist will take over the entire country. Israel is a winner in the worlds eye, they take not crap from Islam. You taketh, they killith.
I'm starting a pool in the office as to the body count and the date the fighting is stopped. Wait there's not fighting, it's a turkey shoot when the terrorits hide in your homes.
Israeli Cabinet minister Rafi Eitan:
"We have no interest in being in south Lebanon. We have an interest in peace on our borders."
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA.
Yeah. Right.
I've been to hell, it's in the Cayman Islands. I sent a post card home from there. It's very nice too, clean white beaches, no oil slicks, rubble or body parts to mess it up. Cool place. Look it up on the net.
What has Israel gained from their actions? Not a damn thing, other than to continue to ruin their own credibility, and to demonstrate that they are unwilling to make peace when left to their own devices. Israel has gained no ground, has not stopped Hezbollah, and has earned the collective wrath of the Arab world. Personally, I'd say that's a pretty miserable failure.
Thats your take Rick and all we are is arm chair quarter backs.
I'm done bashing, I have a Person who given me his real name and is educating me and asking some great questions. So I will respond to him via e-mail and chat a bit. As for the rest of you, get a life.
thanks T, I appreciate the imput. thank you for responding to me even though I am an ass to most of these carpet critters.
Rick, I agree with that. But I don't think this whole thing was thought through and now they are there with no clear exit strategy. If they leave they think it will be seen as weakness. Gee, kinda sounds like Bush and our presence in Iraq, doesn't it?
As for credibility...as long as they have the almighty US to back up their every move, what do they care?
Great post, rufusmommy! I guess they are learning all the lessons of the Bush Administration.
"How to Fight a War and Get Absolutely Nowhere" by George "Dubya" Bush and Donald Rumsfeld.
Carmel, we are not making light of what has happened.... just commenting on how the people directing the current wars are utter morons.
Rick that's it exactly. It reminds me of the Iraqi minister sitting on televison denying that American troops were in Bagdad when they were rolling right by him.
You say your economy has been paralyzed..can you tell me in what ways? I'm not being sarcastic, but I genuinely want to know.
I can say this..you talk as if Israel is no threat to it's neighbors, but yet it is the only nation in the region with nuclear weapons. I disagree that the best defense is an offense...more often that not it ends up backfiring. Peace cannot be obtained through conflict. Only meanful dialogue, in which all sides participate wholly, and with compassion and empathy will ever create a lasting peace in the region.
Let me start by saying those words were from an article I read... Not that I take it back, but I'm not into plagiarizing. It was written by a guy named Yair Lapid.
rufusmommy: Laugh at Rafi Eitan's PEACEFUL words... sure... but take no notice of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's....
I went to a program a few days ago and the keynote speaker was a Washington Post columnist by the name of Charles Krauthammer. He was incredible and I'm going to post some of his writings:
What other country, when attacked in an unprovoked aggression across a recognized international frontier, is then put on a countdown clock by the world, given a limited time window in which to fight back, regardless of whether it has restored its own security?
What other country sustains 1,500 indiscriminate rocket attacks into its cities -- every one designed to kill, maim and terrorize civilians -- and is then vilified by the world when it tries to destroy the enemy's infrastructure and strongholds with precision-guided munitions that sometimes have the unintended but unavoidable consequence of collateral civilian death and suffering?
To hear the world pass judgment on the Israel-Hezbollah war as it unfolds is to live in an Orwellian moral universe. With a few significant exceptions (the leadership of the United States, Britain, Australia, Canada and a very few others), the world -- governments, the media, U.N. bureaucrats -- has completely lost its moral bearings.
The word that obviates all thinking and magically inverts victim into aggressor is "disproportionate," as in the universally decried "disproportionate Israeli response."
When the United States was attacked at Pearl Harbor, it did not respond with a parallel "proportionate" attack on a Japanese naval base. It launched a four-year campaign that killed millions of Japanese, reduced Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki to cinders, and turned the Japanese home islands into rubble and ruin.
Disproportionate? No. When one is wantonly attacked by an aggressor, one has every right -- legal and moral -- to carry the fight until the aggressor is disarmed and so disabled that it cannot threaten one's security again. That's what it took with Japan.
Britain was never invaded by Germany in World War II. Did it respond to the Blitz and V-1 and V-2 rockets with "proportionate" aerial bombardment of Germany? Of course not. Churchill orchestrated the greatest air campaign and land invasion in history, which flattened and utterly destroyed Germany, killing untold innocent German women and children in the process.
The perversity of today's international outcry lies in the fact that there is indeed a disproportion in this war, a radical moral asymmetry between Hezbollah and Israel: Hezbollah is deliberately trying to create civilian casualties on both sides while Israel is deliberately trying to minimize civilian casualties, also on both sides.
In perhaps the most blatant terror campaign from the air since the London Blitz, Hezbollah is raining rockets on Israeli cities and villages. These rockets are packed with ball bearings that can penetrate automobiles and shred human flesh. They are meant to kill and maim. And they do.
But it is a dual campaign. Israeli innocents must die in order for Israel to be terrorized. But Lebanese innocents must also die in order for Israel to be demonized, which is why Hezbollah hides its fighters, its rockets, its launchers, its entire infrastructure among civilians. Creating human shields is a war crime. It is also a Hezbollah specialty.
On Wednesday CNN cameras showed destruction in Tyre. What does Israel have against Tyre and its inhabitants? Nothing. But the long-range Hezbollah rockets that have been raining terror on Haifa are based in Tyre. What is Israel to do? Leave untouched the launch sites that are deliberately placed in built-up areas?
Had Israel wanted to destroy Lebanese civilian infrastructure, it would have turned out the lights in Beirut in the first hour of the war, destroying the billion-dollar power grid and setting back Lebanon 20 years. It did not do that. Instead it attacked dual-use infrastructure -- bridges, roads, airport runways -- and blockaded Lebanon's ports to prevent the reinforcement and resupply of Hezbollah. Ten thousand Katyusha rockets are enough. Israel was not going to allow Hezbollah 10,000 more.
Israel's response to Hezbollah has been to use the most precise weaponry and targeting it can. It has no interest, no desire to kill Lebanese civilians. Does anyone imagine that it could not have leveled south Lebanon, to say nothing of Beirut? Instead, in the bitter fight against Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, it has repeatedly dropped leaflets, issued warnings, sent messages by radio and even phone text to Lebanese villagers to evacuate so that they would not be harmed.
Israel knows that these leaflets and warnings give the Hezbollah fighters time to escape and regroup. The advance notification as to where the next attack is coming has allowed Hezbollah to set up elaborate ambushes. The result? Unexpectedly high Israeli infantry casualties. Moral scrupulousness paid in blood. Israeli soldiers die so that Lebanese civilians will not, and who does the international community condemn for disregarding civilian life?
Israel has no interest in killing civilians? Not so according to the people who have been writing here. Not so according to the leaflets you drop to taunt the people you intend to kill next. "moral scrupulousness?" "Israeli soldiers die so that Lebanese civilians will not?"
There's no way to talk to someone like you. Why don't you simply say, "war is hell" and be done with it. I detest William Tecumseh Sherman for burning his way from Atlanta to Savannah and then saying "war is hell" but at least he didn't talk bullshit like you.
That's the trouble with Israel - a nation made up of a lot of people with a lot of neuroses. You always have to try to convince people you are "good" - even while you are killing them. And then, it's "I'm just defending myself" and "I'm doing it morally." If you're going to persist in bombing and destroying and killing innocents who some of you say are hiding Hezbollah but who you say Israel doesn't really have an interest in killing, at least SHUT UP. There's absolutely nothing worse than a whiny killer saying "I hope you understand, I don't want to do this but I just have to." Look at one of the newer topics on this blog and see your countryman saying how we ought to be talking about "peace" instead of anticipating death by bomber following your taunting leaflets.
Don't you people think at all before you whine? We know you don't give a damn enough to think before you bomb. But at least put some thought into your inanities.
Israel's response to Hezbollah has been to use the most precise weaponry and targeting it can.
If that were the case..thousands of Lebanse civlians would not be dead, now would they?
Mr or Ms "How bout we try peace this time": I laugh at the absurdity of many statements made by many leaders...this one just happened to catch my attention today.
HCB- you are right on the money.
ok I responded to 'give peace a chance' as anonymous before regarding the 'lets forget the palestinian situation' in the 'why do they hate us?' piece. So from uk I suggest he/she changes his/her title. There is no chance for peace in your reasoning History is there for us to learn from not to repeat. Do as you would be done by. Would you like to get out of your home? Would you say if your children were killed oh well they didn't mean it? Do you honestly ascribe to Hiroshima being an acceptable response? God help us. You think everyone should consider disproportionate attack on others if terrorists appear to be 'home grown' Ok. Britain has just stopped todays plane terrorists but can they stop them all? And should therefore the whole country be blamed for that? If just one or two or even three slipped through, should the U.S.A bomb and level London? And if it did wouldn't the world be shocked stunned and distraught? I hope so. The people in Lebanon are in shock, stunned and distraught. Are you surprised? And then there is the ecological toll. But there you go if you want to talk atomic bombs in the same chapter as apologising for war, so be it, Mr. or Mrs. This time let's give peace a chance. Perhaps to you some it only means a less productive fishing trip next time.
How abot we try peace this time,
I responded to your hilarious post earlier. Don't try to make excuses about posting it by saying it is not your own words.
"creating human shields is a war crime. It is also a Hezbollah specialty." It also seems to be an Isreali specialty. Today, the IDF went into a predominately Christian neighborhood and made human shields out of 400 Lebanese civilians because they were not willing to fight the IDF. Some of them were even Lebanese soldiers who are not involved in this situation. Talk about hypocrisy.
By the way, these rocket attacks did not start until Israel fired upon Lebanon.
"These rockets are packed with ball bearings that can penetrate automobiles and shred human flesh. They are meant to kill and maim. And they do."
Hahahahaha! Like Israeli bombs are not meant to do the same thing. The difference is that the Israeli bombs are not meant to shred flesh, they are meant to tear a person completely apart and burn them to smitherenes, or to turn ten stories buildings into rubble. The proof is in the numbers.
Although they did not turn the power grid off, they have the same exact effect without deliberately targeting the power grid. This way they get slightly off and don't look like they are purposely targeting infrastructure. How sneaky. As to warning Hizbollah so that they can escape, Hizbollah does not want to escape. They want to fight to the death. I do not agree with what Hizbollah is doing, but who else will protect us now? Israel wil not stop even if the soldiers are returned. They will not stop until they 'get rid' of Hizbollah. This they will never do, so the war will go on forever and ever. Our kids and thier kids will be feeling it too, but they will have forgotten how it started. But it won't make a difference. Hate is hate, and that lasts until someone will make a stand for what is right. War is always unjustified. Whether you belive in it or not, it is always wrong.
"These rockets are packed with ball bearings that can penetrate automobiles and shred human flesh. They are meant to kill and maim. And they do."
Israel is firing phosphorous bombs and cluster bombs designed only to kill. Hizbollah's rockets do nothing compared to these weapons of mass destruction. Anf you cry about a hundred rockets a day. These bombs turn a body black from the inside out or tear a eprson to pieces. They are meant to completely obliterate and they do. Hizbollah does not have these types of weapons, so they fire in quantity and still do not even come close to the type of damage and killing that Israel is doing.
HZ weapons... stop the bullshit pls.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/749043.html
......
Hezbollah gunners renewed their attacks on northern Israel on Thursday morning, killing a five-year-old Fathi Assadi and his mother Miriam, 26, in the western Galilee village of Dir al-Assad.
Eleven other people were wounded in the attack, including Faris, the three-year-old brother of the boy who was killed, who sustained serious injuries. The dead woman's mother-in-law was also seriously hurt. One other person was moderately hurt and eight suffered light wounds.
.....
by the way - you would not believe the amount of weapon and technology the idf has found in s.lebanon (marge ayon etc.)
(my little bro told me.... ;-) )
A bombing plot- another fabrication of the Bush administration..how the hell could he convince his public that he has to continue his "war on terror"...(When in fact he should start with himself and his men)...The war in Lebanon...with Syria next then finally IRAN!!! Bush's dream to go skinny dipping in black gold..i guess he didnt get enough in Texas..
This whole bomb plot was also needed because the British ppl are not as gullible as the Americans...Blair's position is in danger and there has even been a call for his resignation...How could Bush and his administration boost the polls and keep Blair in his position??? If you noticed...in his speech in Wisconsin...Blair has done an excellent job and if it wasnt for him...we could have seen something comparable to 9/11....
I would think that we should be hearing from "Ousama bin Laden" soon...you know to further sediment the need for this whole NEW WORLD ORDER!
Ousama is currently undergoing a few touch-ups on PhotoShop in some nice studio in Hollywood...he needs a make over u see...soon to be released ;-)
I am so infuriated at how things are going in this world..and the saddest part is if we scream, rant and rave...it's no help...they have an agenda...and follow it to the T...
From Beirut...over and out...God bless
to ck
yet another bomb plot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1izMHSUojQ&mode=related&search=
just a plot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE9TLgCVLBM&mode=related&search=
to: how about we try...
Trying to compare Israeli aggression to the American response to Pearl Harbor? Wow, what a stretch.
Japan, Germany, and Italy were aligned to attack every free nation on Earth. I hardly think Israel faces such dire consequences, especially given the stockpile of nukes it has.
Israel is reaping what it sows. get your facts straight.
A great quote by Golda Meir:
"We can forgive you for killing our sons. But we will never forgive you for making us kill yours. Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."
Rick said...
Trying to compare Israeli aggression to the American response to Pearl Harbor? Wow, what a stretch.
Japan, Germany, and Italy were aligned to attack every free nation on Earth. I hardly think Israel faces such dire consequences, especially given the stockpile of nukes it has.
Rick you live in a hole or something, you shape young minds?
Israel faces a far worse fate, as the Germans were trying so does Iran and the rest of the haters. They will not rest until the Jew are all dead and Palestine is conquered. Good God you are so one sided and blinded by your ignorance of the reality of what has been happening for hundreds if not thousands of years. Open your eye’s and minds. You are truly kidding yourself.
Look back at the 90s, anon. Israel was at relative peace with the Arab world and collaboration was beginning to take place. The Israelis get a vote in how they get along with their neighbors. When they treat their neighbors nicely, they are basically left in peace, and if Israel were better at this, there would be far fewer places where extremists would find a home.
We didn't have that benefit with Japan and Germany in WWII. Had we not responded with overwhelming force, we would have potentially lost our way of life. Israel is under no such threat, no matter how Israeli apologists paint this... not when they have at least 200 nukes! If they bothered to negotiate and demonstrate that they genuinely want peace, anti-Zionists and anti-Jewish people would find far less sympathetic audiences.
Yes, Iran will continue to hate them. But Iran will have a hard time finding allies if Israel wises up.
For all of you Israeli apologists, PLEASE explain one damn thing that Israel has accomplished so far with this aggression. And then please explain how that balances against the loss of nearly a thousand innocents. From my perspective they have lost the military war so far, and with the exception of Israel and the U.S. they have lost the public relations war as well. Hezbollah knew exactly what they were doing and they baited Israel perfectly. Had Israel not responded with such naked aggression, Lebanon and Hezbollah would both be under tremendous political pressure to halt attacks, and Israel might actually be perceived as the victim. Even the Arab League would have been unable to be sympathetic with Hezbollah and would be bringing pressure to bear.
I just can't fathom that Israel has accomplished anything but fan the flames of hate, and ensure another generation of war.
rick:
I agree that they didn't achieve much, and that's unfortunate. But they did not respond for quite some time. This isn't the first time Hezbollah has sent rockets into Israel. It's been happening for quite some time. So you tell me what Israel did to deserve it in the first place, and then what the world did to prevent it for these past few years.
Blogwatch...the following is from scoop.com (NZ):
K. Christison: Atrocities in the Promised Land
Wednesday, 19 July 2006, 11:00 am
Opinion: Guest Opinion
Atrocities in the Promised Land
Originally Published palestinechronicle.com/
Words fail; ordinary terms are inadequate to describe the horrors Israel daily perpetrates, and has perpetrated for years, against the Palestinians. The tragedy of Gaza has been described a hundred times over, as have the tragedies of 1948, of Qibya, of Sabra and Shatila, of Jenin -- 60 years of atrocity perpetrated in the name of Judaism. But the horror generally falls on deaf ears in most of Israel, in the U.S. political arena, in the mainstream U.S. media. Those who are horrified -- and there are many -- cannot penetrate the shield of impassivity that protects the political and media elite in Israel, even more so in the U.S., and increasingly now in Canada and Europe, from seeing, from caring.
But it needs to be said now, loudly: those who devise and carry out Israeli policies have made Israel into a monster, and it has come time for all of us -- all Israelis, all Jews who allow Israel to speak for them, all Americans who do nothing to end U.S. support for Israel and its murderous policies -- to recognize that we stain ourselves morally by continuing to sit by while Israel carries out its atrocities against the Palestinians.
A nation that mandates the primacy of one ethnicity or religion over all others will eventually become psychologically dysfunctional. Narcissistically obsessed with its own image, it must strive to maintain its racial superiority at all costs and will inevitably come to view any resistance to this imagined superiority as an existential threat. Indeed, any other people automatically becomes an existential threat simply by virtue of its own existence. As it seeks to protect itself against phantom threats, the racist state becomes increasingly paranoid, its society closed and insular, intellectually limited. Setbacks enrage it; humiliations madden it. The state lashes out in a crazed effort, lacking any sense of proportion, to reassure itself of its strength.
The pattern played out in Nazi Germany as it sought to maintain a mythical Aryan superiority. It is playing out now in Israel. “This society no longer recognizes any boundaries, geographical or moral,” wrote Israeli intellectual and anti-Zionist activist Michel Warschawski in his 2004 book Towards an Open Tomb: The Crisis of Israeli Society. Israel knows no limits and is lashing out as it finds that its attempt to beat the Palestinians into submission and swallow Palestine whole is being thwarted by a resilient, dignified Palestinian people who refuse to submit quietly and give up resisting Israel’s arrogance.
We in the United States have become inured to tragedy inflicted by Israel, and we easily fall for the spin that automatically, by some trick of the imagination, converts
Israeli atrocities to examples of how Israel is victimized. But a military establishment that drops a 500-pound bomb on a residential apartment building in the middle of the night and kills 14 sleeping civilians, as happened in Gaza four years ago, is not a military that operates by civilized rules.
A military establishment that drops a 500-pound bomb on a house in the middle of the night and kills a man and his wife and seven of their children, as happened in Gaza four days ago, is not the military of a moral country.
A society that can brush off as unimportant an army officer’s brutal murder of a 13-year-old girl on the claim that she threatened soldiers at a military post -- one of nearly 700 Palestinian children murdered by Israelis since the intifada began -- is not a society with a conscience.
A government that imprisons a 15-year-old girl -- one of several hundred children in Israeli detention -- for the crime of pushing and running away from a male soldier trying to do a body search as she entered a mosque is not a government with any moral bearings. (This story, not the kind that ever appears in the U.S. media, was reported in the London Sunday Times. The girl was shot three times as she ran away and was convicted to 18 months in prison after she came out of a coma.)
Critics of Israel note increasingly that Israel is self-destructing, nearing a catastrophe of its own making. Israeli journalist Gideon Levy talks of a society in “moral collapse.”
Michel Warschawski writes of an “Israeli madness” and “insane brutality,” a “putrefaction” of civilized society, that have set Israel on a suicidal course. He foresees the end of the Zionist enterprise; Israel is a “gang of hoodlums,” he says, a state “that makes a mockery of legality and of civil morality. A state run in contempt of justice loses the strength to survive.”
As Warschawski notes bitterly, Israel no longer knows any moral boundaries -- if it ever did. Those who continue to support Israel, who make excuses for it as it descends into corruption, have lost their moral compass.
*************
-Kathleen Christison is a former CIA political analyst and has worked on Middle East issues for 30 years. She is the author of Perceptions of Palestine and The Wound of Dispossession. She is a contributor to Ramzy Baroud’s latest book: The Second Palestinian Intifada: A Chronicle of a People’s Struggle. She can be reached at kathy.bill@christison-santafe.com.
Blogwatch: The list if Israeli atrocities is a VERY long one...I have looked. This is not a nation whose government is interested in coexistence with its neighbors, but instead a facist state that insures its survival through terror.
Also...look at the number of UN resolutions that have been utterly ignored by Israel... this further supports the idea that they are not interested in being a peaceful neighbor.
Israel likes to point at the one resolution that Lebanon is having difficulty with; that's truly the pot calling the kettle black.
This is a nation that got attacked as soon as they became a nation and won with not nearly the amount of weaponry and men that the other nations attacking them with. They're a nation that won miraculous victories in '67, '73 etc.. But it's also a nation understanding that it's entering a time when kindness doesn't always work. When fanatics like Ahmadinejad are obsessed with wiping Israel off the map and obsessed with obtaining nuclear power. Israel has nuclear bombs, yet it has never used it or threatened anyone with it. You tell me if Iran, Syria, Lebanon, etc.. would be as quiet and peaceful if they were in possession of a nuclear bomb. Yes, Israel needs the terror of her neighbours to guarantee it's peace. How unfortunate it is that the nations in the region drove Israel to that level.
Now we've gone from denial to rationalization.
And when the news begins seizing on the fact that Israel had already planned these attacks well before the abductions (with U.S. assistance), what will your rationalization be then? This is immoral and illegal. Add George Bush to the list of war criminals in this conflict.
Who's denying anything? The only reason the neighbouring countries don't launch an attack on Israel is because they are scared. And the proof is that they've all tried and they've all lost. Throughout all those wars it was quite evident that G-D's hand was in there. And who wants to launch an attack against that?
Israel might have been planning these attacks for years, but guess what? They've been having Northern Israel attacked for years as well... this was just the straw that broke the camel's back. A very very strong camel with quite a heavy load on it's back.
I don't think Israel had much choice. What would you do if your country was under constant attack? Let the northern region become a graveyard, or have your citizens be able to live in safety and peace. It really is too bad the death and destruction that happened and is happening to the Lebanese people. But you can't expect Israel to keep absorbing terrorist attacks because they feel bad making the Lebanese people go through all of this. That's not to say the Lebanese people deserve it. As a Jewish person, I don't see the news of what's happening in Lebanon and say to myself, whatever, we gotta do what we gotta do. I see it and I honestly feel bad for them. I really do. And I know you might not believe that, but the community I live in, and it's quite a large Jewish community, we all feel bad. And there's many people who question what's going on, but who also understand that the situation the way it was, was just not a normal one for any country to live with. I know quite a few Muslims, I do business with quite a few Muslims and they're all good, upstanding people. We talk about the situation alot, and what I always say is I take the simple, uneducated approach. Why can't we all just live side by side... we don't have to be friends, we don't have to talk to each other, but why is the end always death? Why do I have to worry about my kids and grandchildren, and why should you. And they all agree. After all, who wouldn't?
But look, enough of finger pointing and blaming. We can agree to disagree on the many issues we've disagreed on. For now, let's agree on one thing. The whole world should be able to live side by side with each other in peace.
Agreed?
Who's denying anything? The only reason the neighbouring countries don't launch an attack on Israel is because they are scared. And the proof is that they've all tried and they've all lost. Throughout all those wars it was quite evident that G-D's hand was in there. And who wants to launch an attack against that?
Israel might have been planning these attacks for years, but guess what? They've been having Northern Israel attacked for years as well... this was just the straw that broke the camel's back. A very very strong camel with quite a heavy load on it's back.
I don't think Israel had much choice. What would you do if your country was under constant attack? Let the northern region become a graveyard, or have your citizens be able to live in safety and peace. It really is too bad the death and destruction that happened and is happening to the Lebanese people. But you can't expect Israel to keep absorbing terrorist attacks because they feel bad making the Lebanese people go through all of this. That's not to say the Lebanese people deserve it. As a Jewish person, I don't see the news of what's happening in Lebanon and say to myself, whatever, we gotta do what we gotta do. I see it and I honestly feel bad for them. I really do. And I know you might not believe that, but the community I live in, and it's quite a large Jewish community, we all feel bad. And there's many people who question what's going on, but who also understand that the situation the way it was, was just not a normal one for any country to live with. I know quite a few Muslims, I do business with quite a few Muslims and they're all good, upstanding people. We talk about the situation alot, and what I always say is I take the simple, uneducated approach. Why can't we all just live side by side... we don't have to be friends, we don't have to talk to each other, but why is the end always death? Why do I have to worry about my kids and grandchildren, and why should you. And they all agree. After all, who wouldn't?
But look, enough of finger pointing and blaming. We can agree to disagree on the many issues we've disagreed on. For now, let's agree on one thing. The whole world should be able to live side by side with each other in peace.
Agreed?
SIDE NOTE:
I have to apologize. My post got put up twice. I'm not sure why.
Sorry
On that, you hit the nail on the head, blogwatch.
Thanks. And if only everyone could agree on that.... We can make a national movement. One that doesn't have anything to do with the past. One that totally ignores everything that has happened before. We can call it "Peace: The Uneducated Way"
Who's ready to sign up?
LOL....I'll be a charter member!
Great... as president I make you my vice-president.
Maybe RS and mrtez can use this blog to recruit.
Any other members?
(Please note: all members must be approved by the board... a.k.a. me and rick)
LOL. I accept the nomination!
Well, I needed to vent over the past 90 minutes, and found myself writing a "manifesto" about my feelings on the march to war that we have been on since 9/11. If anyone wants to be really bored, read my blog.
G'night all! And may the cease fire last.
Keep your fingers crossed.
Nice site by the way.
Thanks blogwatch....I am finding it to be very therapeutic in dealing with all of this madness.
Not a problem.... I signed your guestbook.
Ah cool...thanks!
I think we need to hire a marketing and recruiting firm, becuase noone seems interested!
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