Sunday, August 06, 2006

What we still don't understand about Hizbollah

This week, world terrorism expert Robert Pape will share with the FBI the findings of his remarkable study of 462 suicide bombings. He concludes that such acts have little to do with religious extremism and that the West must engage politically to halt the relentless slaughter

Sunday August 6, 2006
The Observer

Israel has finally conceded that air power alone will not defeat Hizbollah. Over the coming weeks, it will learn that ground power won't work either. The problem is not that the Israelis have insufficient military might, but that they misunderstand the nature of the enemy.
In terms of structure and hierarchy, it is less comparable with, say, a religious cult such as the Taliban than to the multi-dimensional American civil rights movement of the 1960s. What made its rise so rapid, and will make it impossible to defeat militarily, was not its international support but the fact that it evolved from a reorientation of pre-existing Lebanese social groups.
Evidence of the broad nature of Hizbollah's resistance to Israeli occupation can be seen in the identity of its suicide attackers. Hizbollah conducted a broad campaign of suicide bombings against American, French and Israeli targets from 1982 to 1986. Altogether, these attacks, which included the infamous bombing of the marine barracks in Beirut in 1983, involved 41 suicide terrorists.
Researching my book, which covered all 462 suicide bombings around the globe, I had colleagues scour Lebanese sources to collect martyr videos, pictures and testimonials and biographies of the Hizbollah bombers. Of the 41, we identified the names, birth places and other personal data for 38. We were shocked to find that only eight were Islamic fundamentalists; 27 were from leftist political groups such as the Lebanese Communist Party and the Arab Socialist Union; three were Christians, including a female secondary school teacher with a college degree. All were born in Lebanon.
What these suicide attackers - and their heirs today - shared was not a religious or political ideology but simply a commitment to resisting a foreign occupation. Nearly two decades of Israeli military presence did not root out Hizbollah. The only thing that has proven to end suicide attacks, in Lebanon and elsewhere, is withdrawal by the occupying force.
Previous analyses of suicide terrorism have not had the benefit of a complete survey of all suicide terrorist attacks worldwide. The lack of complete data, together with the fact that many such attacks, including all those against Americans, have been committed by Muslims, has led many in the US to assume that Islamic fundamentalism must be the underlying main cause. This, in turn, has fuelled a belief that anti-American terrorism can be stopped only by wholesale transformation of Muslim societies, which helped create public support of the invasion of Iraq. But study of the phenomenon of suicide terrorism shows that the presumed connection to Islamic fundamentalism is misleading.
There is not the close connection between suicide terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism that many people think. Rather, what nearly all suicide terrorist campaigns have in common is a specific secular and strategic goal: to compel democracies to withdraw military forces from territory that the terrorists consider to be their homeland.
Religion is rarely the root cause, although it is often used as a tool by terrorist organisations in recruiting and in other efforts in service of the broader strategic objective. Most often, it is a response to foreign occupation.
Understanding that suicide terrorism is not a product of Islamic fundamentalism has important implications for how the US and its allies should conduct the war on terrorism. Spreading democracy across the Persian Gulf is not likely to be a panacea as long as foreign troops remain on the Arabian peninsula. The obvious solution might well be simply to abandon the region altogether. Isolationism, however, is not possible; America needs a new strategy that pursues its vital interest in oil but does not stimulate the rise of a new generation of suicide terrorists. The same is true of Israel now.
The new Israeli land offensive may take ground and destroy weapons, but it has little chance of destroying Hizbollah. In fact, in the wake of the bombings of civilians, the incursion will probably aid Hizbollah's recruiting.
Equally important, Israel's incursion is also squandering the goodwill it had initially earned from so-called moderate Arab states such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia. The countries are the court of opinion that matters because, while Israel cannot crush Hizbollah, it could achieve a more limited goal: ending Hizbollah's acquisition of more missiles through Syria.
Given Syria's total control of its border with Lebanon, stemming the flow of weapons is a job for diplomacy, not force. Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan, Sunni-led nations that want stability in the region, are motivated to stop the rise of Hizbollah. Under the right conditions, the US might be able to help assemble an ad hoc coalition of Syria's neighbours to entice and bully it to prevent Iranian, Chinese or other foreign missiles from entering Lebanon. It could also offer to begin talks over the future of the Golan Heights.
But Israel must take the initiative. Unless it calls off the offensive and accepts a genuine ceasefire, there are likely to be many, many dead Israelis in the coming weeks - and a much stronger Hizbollah.

Robert Pape is professor of political studies at the University of Chicago. His book, Dying to Win: Why Suicide Terrorists Do It, will be published in the UK by Gibson Square this month.

38 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tarek thank you for posting this article. Very intelligent points, shedding light on the reality which the US and Israel seem ignorant to.
Let's wait and see if people start trying to take it apart on this blog..

4:23 PM  
Anonymous free us from them said...

this is probably the most ridicolous point ever.
these people are religious zealots and thats all there is to it. kill them all and dont give them the right to keep on spreading their hate.
and who is the author of this stupid book on suicidal bombings?

5:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

wow! what an educated and articulate response! I bet everyone is impressed..

5:53 PM  
Anonymous help the lebanese said...

these points are very important for all of us. they are important to make people undestand why some people resort to suicide bombings - mainly desperation and the feeling of being abused.
in the states, we can see similar effects with children whose needs are not addressed. rather they are left to their desperations alone.
it is time the US government reels in israel and changes its policy on the poor people of the middle east. we need solutions not more problems.

5:59 PM  
Blogger Mr Wrath said...

Suicide bombers are the dumbest thing ever if you think about it. Why wouldn't you try to bomb and get away so you could do it several times and cause more damage...just seems common sense.

I think they just find people with emotional problems that would be suicidal whether there is a war or not. You won't see Osama dumb enough to strap a bomb on and do it himself..or anyone else who is in charge...

6:01 PM  
Blogger lady d said...

You're right! Suicide bombing is the dumbest thing ever! Surely then, circumstances must be really dire if one has to resort to something that dumb?? Surely the bomber finds no other way? To "me and my enemies" seems an act of desperation.. and thus: if they have nothing more to loose this is the only option left! Oppression is a mighty force!

6:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear "free us from them" (post nom.2)

Your response does nothing but show to me and everyone reading this how immensely uneducated and ignorant you, and people who share your opinion are. I don't believe FOX and CBS give any contextual background to the current conflict, and considering the eloquence of your response, I highly doubt you know how to read. I think everyone's tired of ranting on like the one you have displayed. GO learn how to read and wake up to the reality of the situation in Lebanon.

6:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a 45 year old American, I cannot tell you how tired I am of hearing -- year after year -- about the continued violence in the Middle East. Frankly, right now, I'm not real concerned about who started anything, though I am pretty convinced that most of the Arab and Muslim population won't be happy until Israel is obliterated off the map. It really doesn't matter what Israel decides to do to appease the Palestinians, Hezbollah, the Iranians, whatever. As long as their flag still flies anywhere in that area, fanatics will stop at nothing to destroy them. So, as far as I'm concerned, Israel has carte blanche to do whatever they want to defend themselves. They can't win for losing.

Other than that, frankly any American politician that gets up and says, "Make peace NOW, or we're going to do to the Middle East what the Romans did to Carthage and render the whole goddamn region uninhabitable for the next 1000 years" has got my vote.

6:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Anon 45 year old American. I am very sorry the Middle East is tiring to you. We hope to serve you better in the future. Maybe it would be better if we made martinis to keep you entertained. By the way your statement, i.e. "render the whole goddamn region uninhabitable for the next 1000 years" Thank you for being so candid about your savagery. Maybe you could apply for a job with Al Qaeda. I think they are hiring.

8:19 PM  
Anonymous your mama said...

HEY EVERYONE. can you please give yourself a name, even if it's fake? it's getting really confusing with all this "anonymous" stuff.

8:27 PM  
Anonymous Wild Rice said...

"...or we're going to do to the Middle East what the Romans did to Carthage...":

Too late. Israel has already tried that strategy. If you do not wish to to continue to be bothered by the "continued violence" I would suggest to you that you instruct your Congressman that you no longer want our tax dollars sent to Israel until they stop acting like thugs. But, you know what, I'm guessing that you will not do that. So, tough titty.

In any case I find it hard to empathize with you. You're pissed and there are people dying in Lebanon.

8:40 PM  
Anonymous dror from israel said...

Too late. Israel has already tried that strategy.

sadly, not true. israel has it's fantic too you see, and luckely for all of us they DONT have a private army. i people like liberman get over israel (right wing is getting stronger ) israel might try flatting viliges and cities, use cimcal wepon or nukes.

what we have seen so far is an example of an army tring to fight gerrila forces, quite modertly. i know it sound absuord but israel is using "smart bombs" and not "rag bombing" for example.

and one more thing , i understand now that HZ AND Lebanon are now AGAINST cease fire. will we see a pro israely/ natural pro cease fire campain now? i dought it. after all most of the "left" in Europe is actualy pro-arab-nationalizem.

9:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

45 year anon reflects a lot of the frustrations we have here in the U.S. about the middle east. He obviously seems an intelligent person, and I would guess his words are more of frustration than actual truth.

It's kind of like watching Iraq drain our economy and tax dollars that could go to us as we try to build schools, and get electricity going, and clean water for everyone so we can leave them to run their own country, but they keep bombing water lines, killing workers, and it is their fault we can't leave....we don't want to be there, the soldiers there want to come home, and the whole world knows this...these people have families at home.

These frustrations I think are starting to take a toll on soldiers we have there who are starting to "lose it" after years of being stuck there.

Lebanon has a lot of freedoms, and they would never want to go to an Iran style of living I think, so do other people everywhere, so is it not our duty to make it happen? It shouldn't be just the U.S. either, nobody should live their life oppressed being told what to read, what music to listen to, etc etc etc...complacency may be far worse than arrogance.

So we should sit back and enjoy the good life of freedom and forget those people who are far away because they are not here? That is for the french to do...this is a bit off-topic, but I am saying we have a damn good reason for being in the middle east even if it's just a side effect of some screwed up Bush project to make his friends millions...

9:03 PM  
Anonymous dror from israel said...

dear anonyimus, US has one reason to stay in the meadle east : OIL.

not freedom or democracy (like sudayia or Ejept)

nothing is keeping the US soldegers from leving IRAN as they would eventualy do. except maybe the profit of oil compnay or infustructure companies or wepon comnpanies.

the other thing is that ther IS an "other side" i.e. iran that is after power not less then US.

Ha and by the way, after the rockets in haifa, shalom simhon , one of minsters in israel said israel sould "remove the gloves" and start bombarding katyush sources "not chrugicly" (so mush for Hz as defender of lebaon and for cease fire)

9:17 PM  
Blogger Chris Baker said...

I don't know from what point of view MRTEZ writes, but his post is certainly helpful to Israel in cultivating US public opinion. Remember Israel is the largest beneficiary of US foreign aid. From what I read this year alone Israel was expected to get over $2 billion in US military aid from Congress to buy the most advanced US weaponry, missiles, rockets, precision-guided bombs etc. Some US aid to Israel is in loans, but those loans always seem to be forgiven by President Bush. Israel was also to get $400 million in economic aid this year.

Israel's is carefully cultivating US public opinion among US conservative voters, but based on posts on bulletin boards conservatives are watching Hezbollah's military tactics and increasingly seem to approve. That obviously is a disaster for Israel to which US public opinion is absolutely critical. Therefore what Israel desperately wants to do is associate Hezbollah with suicide attacks, not the type of military campaign Hezbollah is currently fighting. To the extent posts like MRTEZ do that, they are helpful to Israel.

9:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From vietnam, to Iraq, to now in Lebanon, cowards hide amongst civilians in civilian clothes knowing full well what they are doing.

Of course it works and is a good tactic, but still cowardly when the opposing forces clearly identify themselves by uniform so no civilian can be mistaken for military.

It's so sad that so many around the world think the U.S. fights dirty when in vietnam momns pushed baby strollers up to soldiers full of exoplosives, and in Iraq the bath party hid in schools and hospitals...

That is the EXACT reason civilians die...cowardice on the part of the fighters. Israels fighters, like U.S. are standing right there in uniform ready to fight....they do this to seperate themselves from civilians on purpose...it would of course be easier to dress normal and sneak attack, but some soldiers fight with honor.

9:40 PM  
Blogger HCB said...

Yup - no hiding in an F-16 five miles up and five miles away. Or a self-propelled howitzer from five to eight miles away. Or a laser or gps guided bomb from five or six miles overhead. Pilots and gunners are in uniform - you're right. But the cowards don't even own a uniform - much less wear it. Same thing the English said about the damned Americans couple of hundred years ago - cowards hide behind trees while we march in red-coated ranks.

"moms pushed baby strollers up to soldiers full of soldiers?" Got something we can look up to check that "fact?" First problem that comes to mind is I don't remember ever seeing a vietnamese with a baby stroller. Fight with "honor?" Oh - you mean uniformed navy guys on the ships and submarines full of Tomahawk Cruise Missiles floating a couple of hundred miles away?

The EXACT reason civilians die is they are targeted. Look, for instance, at why civilians died in London, in Dresden, in Tokyo, in Manchuria, in Savannah and Atlanta. By the way, I was in Vietnam. In the shooting part. Our rules of engagement were, when we were fired on from a group of civilians, "duck." We were NOT to return fire or kill civilians where avoidable. And "civilians" meant "unarmed."

10:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

dear tree hugger, you miss the point, it is about putting civilians in harms way....all war is bad to you, we all see that..there are no civilians riding in F-16s...

My definition of a moron would be someone who has an F-16 but says "ya know what? fuck it, I will go in on foot today".

I am talking about civilians, not the fact Israel and the U.S. have better stuff. Live in reality...Hezbollah attacked a country that has all this gear...Israel prepared shelters and such for the civilians, and THAT is why the death toll is lower...Israel is a real government , Hezbollah is a bunch of fucked up freedom fighters who brought ruin to the country...fuck it, go live with them and enjoy their lifestyle or shut up...

10:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dror from Israel, it is not true that Isral is fighting moderately and using smart bombs. They are in fact using ilegal weapos such as phosphorous bombs which turn your whole body black from the inside and freeze it up. Why, if they are fighting moderately, should they use ilegal weapons? And if they are considered to be fightin moderately, then Hizbollah is fighting extremely moderately. Their rockets do not flatten whole buildings and take out roads. They very rarely kill many peopl in one hit. Israelis usually die from shrapnel hits, but the Lebanese are completely torn apart by the Isreali rockets. Hizbollah targets civilians because tey do not have good equipment to help them target anything else. Israel still hits civilians even though they have guided missiles and heat seekers and all the radar that money can buy.

Yes, there has been a U.N. resolution presented, but it does not present any of the issues that need to be solved. Why would Hizbollah and Lebanon accept something taht would allow Israel to fire upon them if they felt even the slightest bit threatened? Also, the resolution does not call for Isreal to withdraw from Lebanon. To me, that sounds like Israel is given the go ahead to do whateer they want as long as HIzbollah stops firing their rockets Until the cease fire addresses all sides, Lebanon and Hizbollah will not accept. So, it has basically solved nothing. Hizbollah wants the Golan Heights back and promised prisoners to be released. Israel wants its two soldiers back and Hizbollah to drop arms. That will not be achieved with this lame resolution.

10:41 PM  
Anonymous Aijaz said...

you are all a bunch of fukked up morons.

you all want war to continue!!

look at all the killings to date!!! are you mad??

Fuck |Iran and Hez and Syria! get them out of our country
I dont give a fuk about Israel but let them do our job that we should have done and got rid of these fukkers once and for all!!!!!!!!

11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nobody cares what Hezbollah wants or says, they are NOT a government, and not accepted as one.

By NOT being a government entity, and firing on another country, you are therefore terrorists...

I see the pacifist countries caving in as usual and sympathizers crying, but in truth, they should be killed until they yield. They are NOT a government entity...

Crossing a border and killing soldiers is an ACT OF WAR....they had no right to do so...bottom line.

11:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

BTW even talking to them to make a deal gives them power they do NOT deserve.

11:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

regarding this article, suicide is not a rational behavior..it goes against every human instinct to survive...but what the western world does not realize is... that when every bit of control is taken from you--i.e. where to build your house, where and what to work, what you can say and when, where you can travel, if you can vote or not...(and the list goes on)..then suicide killings may be the only "option" for some..

if you cannot control your life and make a statement while you are living, than at least you can control your death...doesnt make it right, but these are the facts.

12:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Speaking of death tolls.

The U.S. lost 58,000 soldiers trying to help the democratic Republic of Vietnam find freedom in 1959, and we lost 117,000 soldiers in WWI which Poland, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia can thank us for...we lost 407,000 soldiers in WWII which anyone who doesn't like Hitler can thank us for...

There is a half million lives fighting not for our country, but for fighting for democracy and freedom for others, this is nothing new.

We have fought for a century right there losing half a million lives to find freedom for others around the world, we fucking earned the right to brag.

These current events...you and I don't know how they will end, but the U.S. has ALWAYS fought for freedom everywhere in the world, this is not a world domination, or a Bush tactic, it is far higher than Bush, America has, and always will show up and fight where people are oppressed...

Read a book...do we own Poland? South Korea? anywhere we have fought for? Fuck you guys when we have shed blood to fight for other countries freedoms and you spit at us now.

12:24 AM  
Blogger Mr Wrath said...

A few points I would disagree with, but I do agree we have lost many many lives in fighting that helped others, and I do agree that is not very highly respected nowadays.

I had to go comfirm that number for WWII cause it seemed high...407,000 U.S. lives lost is correct and since I wasn't around then, I can only imagine what the people were thinking at that time as I see mass protests at 2000 deaths nowadays...I think the world learned a lot from the past which is good atleast.

12:38 AM  
Anonymous frank said...

Read a book...do we own Poland? South Korea? anywhere we have fought for? Fuck you guys when we have shed blood to fight for other countries freedoms and you spit at us now.

California, Texas, New Mexico - ring any bells?

Other countries or territories you effectively own because you payroll their governments or control them economically -

1:17 AM  
Blogger HCB said...

Such a shame. So many chickenhawks. Sitting in a lighted room with no bombs falling outside and no buddies being killed. But everyone has the answer. What do you mean, Frank "We" have shed blood? You did? Have you ever watched a man die from a bullet through his lung? Ever lost a really good friend - or five - to complete senselessness? Here we sit - with nothing really at risk and pontificate. That's why nothing lasting will ever happen. Everybody talks and threatens and says "fuck you" and "war happens" and jews and muslims. But nobody sits and talks to the grandmother or the teenager - the people who just want to make a life. Well - yes, some of you say they should have kicked Hezbollah out and, since they didn't, they brought this on themselves. When we went to "win the hearts and minds" in vietnamese villages the response was simple - and predictable. "You offer us friendship and freedom and medical care. The VC say if we don't give them half of our crop and all of our young men, they'll kill us." How does a grandmother disarm an armed fanatic?

But everybody has the solution - just kill them all. Keep on killing until they all are dead. Then the good guys can go back to the beach. The bad part of that is that it is precisely the way our "leaders" are thinking. Is it so completely wrong to sit and think for a few minutes? And maybe read a history book or two? To see if the real problem can be discerned?

There's not a damned thing I can do. Nothing. I write to my congressman and he writes back. I scream at the moon. And I remember the five very good friends I lost in Vietnam. For what? Because we had a lying, incompetent, arrogant, misguided president and secretary of defense. Read about it - the book's on the defense department reading list: Dereliction of Duty. Read MacNamara's book - he knew we couldn't "win." Nothing can be done and I feel so completely angry and so completely powerless that I understand completely how a person in a hovel listening to drones over head must feel. Why can't we - as human beings - at least try to understand. Instead of simply saying "fuck you and die."

2:13 AM  
Anonymous americans are dumb said...

...including me!!! But I can really tell when something is really out of wack. I think the whole world is turning against us because we support Israel. So can someone please explain to me exactly why we are doing it when it is ruining our country?? I don't see terrorists attacking Australia, it is a great country too!!! Let's start voting for people who care about America and not Israel!!!!

Thank you

5:10 AM  
Blogger Rick said...

To "Americans are dumb..."

It's called politics, friend. As long as there is a pro-Israel voting block to kiss up to, all American politicians (both Dems and Reps) will spend their time cow-towing to Israel. If Arab-Americans were as well-established and equally powerful financially, the climate might change, but don't expect that anytime soon.

To hcb...

Once again I find myself in agreement with you. American foreign policy is a fickle thing... more about immediate gains than about resolving the issues underlying a conflict. President Carter was brave in trying to set a new course for the Middle East. Unfortunately, too many people are more invested in the conflict than in finding a resolution. Some posters here would be well served to think about where their investment is. As would Israel.

6:06 AM  
Anonymous dror from israel said...

to anonymus
israel is using f-16 and 250 kg bombs to hit target, if you are near it, you are burned, Hz is using 70 kg rockets, so there the diffrnce in killing pattern.

israel is using phosphorous bombs? phosphorous is somthinf you can find on the body after the death. do you have any prove for such a thing?

HZ is trying to kill as mush civilintns it can:
- HZ supporters have fastivals after killing many people is israel, no "oops , were sorry" - civilins are targeted,
- HZ is not trying to hit militray bases, but citis like naharih, which has no close militry bases.
- if HZ want war, and lebaonon back up HZ - then war they got, and stop compalining. if not, say so (i know some of you do) and publicly. and maybe even do somthing. (like protest to the lebaon govroment, like the israel left make protest to the israel govroament)

the fact that israel use "smart" bombs and still kill civilions is not a suprise. you can't alwys be right, abd when you are wrong somone "wrong" is dead. sometimes israel kill its won soldgers ("frendly fire" ) - as all armies do. so - the next thing you will think is that israel like its soldeggers dead?

i sow no one in israel celebrate the killing of arab civilaints, but sow palnty of HZ supporters do. they use the west values to cry about peace and war crimes and so on, but cast aside those same values the minite they think the west media don't cover them. (after all they fight thos values in the name of Islam)

"Hizbollah wants the Golan Heights back and promised prisoners to be released"
- hizbaolla wants israel destraction an d said so many times. there will be always excuses why HZ is RIGHT in attcking israel and why israel is wrong. the golan hights? isn't that between israel and syria to sattle? or now HZ is the "defender of syria" too?

to HCB:

about WWII - read the history book again. about 90% of the germane casualties was in the east front. the west did it part, and we all thankfull for that.

part of WWII was becaouse of the strong peace/ non militray groups in engelnd that wanted "peace in all price" (becase of WWI).thats only to show you that sometimes you have to fight.

vitnam has its similarites, but has its diffrnces. for example vitanms didn't attact USA so you could just leave it when the US govroment wanted to do so. israel can't just leave lebaon- israel tryed it in 2000 and not much good came out of it.

terrorist threating and get help? well sometimes, but HZ got many supporters in shiiat stream in lebanon, and not becouse of threats. some of it is becouse HZ is helping them in schools and hospitls that no one else does (iran transfer mony to get the next genration of iran proes and soldgers in the islam revultion). some of it idiology. i think small precentage is treats. the rest of lebnon people could try and do somthing about it, like they drove out syria forces)

i don't think israel can destroy HZ, bu t i think after the war end, the HZ will have thogh answers to give to many in lebanon.

9:54 AM  
Anonymous CK said...

I think you all need a history lesson...

As a Lebanese-Canadian living in Beirut, and I consider myself apolitical, I dont care about politics or anything and so decided to do some research to find the ROOT of this whole problem...and I came across this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/events/israel_at_50/history/78597.stm

This all started when the Jews took over Palestine...if u read well ..they killed Palestinians and made them run from their homes ..the sad thing is they never came back..this is why so many people in the South of Lebanon DO NOT LEAVE THEIR HOMES...they fear history will repeat itself and they're homes will be taken over...America and Israel talk of terrorists??? Israel created Hamas from Fundamental Islamist groups to fight the PLO..only to have their plan backfire!It takes a terrorist to create terrorists.....they were terrorists way back when they decided that they would create Israel

It has always been a battle for land..and the US as always will not stick their noses in anything if they didnt have any interest in it...the region has BLACK GOLD...OIL...and what better way to get at it..by having an American launching pad for wars...ISRAEL...

American politicans need funding for their campaigns..who better than the Jewish lobby...????

Learning all this online really got me sick..

10:54 AM  
Anonymous Christophe said...

dror - very very good and strong points made on your post. Thank you!

lets hope that you are right when you say: "....i think after the war end, the HZ will have thogh answers to give to many in lebanon."

somehow judging by history the people in lebanon choose to repeat mistakes again and again, they dont like to challenge their government... I actually think they will look for ways to embrace IRAN closer to life and hearts of people and maybe even get Syria back to their 'rescue'

such stupid people.

Life is cruel and it is a shame they dont use half the brain they were given at birth.

10:57 AM  
Blogger HCB said...

Good response, Dror from Israel. You show the ordinary Israelis have really thought this through. And, you've done your research - it never occurred to me there's phosphorous on a body after any death and so there's no way to know it's from a white phosphorous bomb. Of course, the wp casualties I've seen didn't have any phosphorous on them - the phosphorous had all burned. But it takes a while and it's sticking to the person the whole time. Cluster bombs are good, too. Especially given the dud rate - they really are the gift that keeps on giving.

No - you argue details that really aren't all that important. The main point is, with a few exceptions, Israelis are smart and able while Lebanese are - as someone above said - a plague. And we all know what has to be done about plagues.

I wonder, though, if you've done any research on where Israel came from. And how it came about. And how terrorism was such an important part of its creation. Did you know Israelis blew up a bunch of Brits in their hotel? You really ought to read about it if you haven't. It's interesting to see how - and as important - why Israel came to be. Since you and others are speaking of plagues, I mean. With such thought and wisdom and coherent arguments.

I'll bet the Ku Klux Klan is watching and saying, "we should have let the jews in."

12:43 PM  
Blogger Ragamuffin said...

Some very interesting insights - on a different vein - are offered by the following article: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/07/28/hezbollah/print.html

You have to endure a short advertisement, or be a paying subscriber to view it. But it's worth the brief effort.

1:05 PM  
Blogger sarah mac said...

as encouraging as it is to hear that pape is revealing his findings to the FBI, will bush's FBI REALLY listen and will they really take it to heart? sadly, i don't think so. why would the current US administration pursue political intervention when war is big business? it's not just about oil anymore. it's also about the profit to be made from producing and selling armaments.

this study is a shining example of research that flies in the face of public opinion. far too many americans view all muslims and arabs as extremists and thus depraved terrorists. these same people would rather see the middle east decimated and made into a 'parking lot'. it's way more convenient than admitting to themselves that oppression is cultivating desperation.

there's been a plethora of research on so many different topics (i.e. warnings of 9-11, levee instability in new orleans and the subsequent devistation of hurricane katrina, global warming...just to name a few) that the bush administration has seemingly completely ignored.

thanks mrtez for this post. i hope the parking lot advocates and not just the fbi digest it as well.

2:55 AM  
Anonymous ylikethis said...

A few words about Israeli Terror on British troops-
Yes, Israeli terrorists commited the attack on King David palace, back in 1946.
91 men died, 475 got injured.

The Israeli terror group INFORMED the "Palestine post" and the french Consule that the hotel is going to blow up, but those proud british got a stright order: "do not leave the hotel, here I give the orders, not the terrorists!".

The whole hotel was evacuated, not including the forth section aka "british part", the reason that caused the attack to be so deadly.

My friend, Im not saying israel is "Clean", but its not bombing civilians with intensions of killing civilians, it is not using napalm and is apologizing for any civilian killed.

Im sure that the IDF made life in lebanon a living hell, and i have alot of simpathy for the lebanese people, but why did it start?

Israel, up til now, since year 2000 is NOT in Lebanon, all according to UN decisions.

Hizballah KIDNAPPED 2 soldiers from INSIDE israel and killed 8 others on the same action, all on the 12 of july 2006.

What should Israel do? play by the rules of Hizballah and give in to them? release lebanese prisoners with blood on their hands?
and if we choose to do so - What will Israel do the next time Hizballah kidnappes soldiers??!?

Israel's got an army and a strong one. we dont apologize for having an airforce and armed troops.
Israel attacked Lebanon only cuz of Hizaballah inside it, it want nothing of Lebanon and surely dont want to be there.

Israel only wants her northern border QUIET!

Stop supporting Hizballah!! It is acting on behalf of the interests of Sirya and Iran. you think these conuntries are your friends? they are only using Lebanon!

10:01 AM  
Anonymous Omar said...

Look back a few more years my friend and put this into context. Invasion after invasion, provocation after provocation.

5:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Zealots is what Al Qaeda that does not have any red lines they kills civilians Hizbollah has killed civilians in this war for the lebanese civilian casualties that is the way Hizbollah works it strikes after the IDF strikes civilians trying to find shelter by being in their homes or shelters. Hizbollah does operate in civilian areas but in areas that have been abondened. Tonight the IDF surrounded Margeyoun where there only Lebanese Army Forces and Lebanese police forces only plus a nearby school that has only civilians they amount to 650 people altogether are these the people Israel want to get rid off! I CALL ANYONE THAT HAS NO SENSE OF HISTORY ABOUT THE ARAB - ISRAELI CONFLICT OR HIZBOLLAH A JACKASS THAT THINKS OF A NEW BS MIDDLE EAST AS THE ANSWER HAH ! WHAT ABOUT THE SYKES-PICOT AGREEMENT AND THE BALFOUR DECLARATION OR ALQAEDA THOSE ARE ALL WESTERN PRODUCTS THAT HAVE GOTTEN US INTO THIS SITUATION IN THE MIDDLE EAST! IF ISRAEL WISHES TO LIVE INPEACE WITH ITS NEIGHBOUR THEN DO NOT TERRORISE THE ARABS BCS THIS CONFLICT WILL CONTINUE AND HIZBOLLAH IS THE GOOD ELEMENT OF RESSITANCE ANYONE IS SEEING THERE ARE WORSE ORGANIZATIONS THAN HIZBOLLAH THAT DISPESES AL QAEDA FOR ITS LACK OF MORALITY AND STONE AGE IDEALOGY THAT EVEN FOR A MODERN
MUSLIM SEEMS OUTDATED AND FRANKLY STUPID!

12:20 AM  

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